It’s Christmas Eve! What Are We...
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Divine Women
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did anyone watch this. I saw about three quarters of last nights programme, i believe it's in three parts, and would like to see the rest. Hosted by Bettany Hughes, who is an excellent presenter. If anyone did watch it, what are your thoughts.
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Mosaic it did give instances, or made mention of other Vestal Virgins who were done to death, which was shocking. The one they mentioned seemed particularly gruesome, having her hands tied, and leading into the bowels of the earth, leaving her with a piece of bread, a candle, a little olive oil, which i believe was put as an appeasement, so she would have died in agony. I would like to watch the all three parts and comment again, very interesting programme.
Right, here goes, em. The coincidences in the roles that women took throughout the ancient world came as no surprise. For example, in ancient Greece women were important, but only in the realm of religion. Similarly in ancient Rome. Only the men were involved in decision making and politics – and if you note, the selection of the Vestal Virgins was the sole preserve of a man, the Pontifex Maximus. How easy it was to blame them – and to punish them - for Rome’s misfortunes.
Moving on to Christianity, whilst I think it’s true that women played an important part in the life of Jesus, Mary Magdalene in particular, I believe the story of Paul and Thecla is just that – a story - centred around a young virgin (sound familiar?). It can be given little credence in reality. St Paul is renowned for his misogyny, famously saying “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.” 1 Corinthians 14:34.
I freely admit I wasn’t sure about the presenter’s claim that Phoebe was charged with the important mission of taking St Paul’s epistle to Rome, so I checked it, and as suspected, there is nothing to confirm that Phoebe was, as was claimed, a member of the hierarchy, but more likely a servant, or even a patron of St Paul – and let’s face it – these men who didn’t work for a living had to get money from somewhere!
Portraying Thecia and of Phoebe in the way they were portrayed and claiming it to be factual is where I find programmes such as this fail. The available information is twisted to fit the chosen agenda – just as it is with religion - and I think that’s a great pity.
For the first few hundred years of its life Christianity was without doubt tampered with and manipulated outrageously – as were the books of the New Testament, none of which can be taken as ‘Gospel’.
Now to Augustine. What a treasure he was. A man obsessed with sex – and like his predecessors – and some who came after him – determinedly instrumental in ensuring the continuance of the subservience of women. Here was a man who lived 400 years after Jesus died. He invented the notion of original sin, placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of the temptress woman – and that, to this day, is still taken seriously. Incredible!
Those are my thoughts on it, but if I’ve missed anything you particularly wanted to talk about, just let me know.
By the way, I like the presenter. She presents in the way that Brian Cox presents and makes it easy listening.
Moving on to Christianity, whilst I think it’s true that women played an important part in the life of Jesus, Mary Magdalene in particular, I believe the story of Paul and Thecla is just that – a story - centred around a young virgin (sound familiar?). It can be given little credence in reality. St Paul is renowned for his misogyny, famously saying “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.” 1 Corinthians 14:34.
I freely admit I wasn’t sure about the presenter’s claim that Phoebe was charged with the important mission of taking St Paul’s epistle to Rome, so I checked it, and as suspected, there is nothing to confirm that Phoebe was, as was claimed, a member of the hierarchy, but more likely a servant, or even a patron of St Paul – and let’s face it – these men who didn’t work for a living had to get money from somewhere!
Portraying Thecia and of Phoebe in the way they were portrayed and claiming it to be factual is where I find programmes such as this fail. The available information is twisted to fit the chosen agenda – just as it is with religion - and I think that’s a great pity.
For the first few hundred years of its life Christianity was without doubt tampered with and manipulated outrageously – as were the books of the New Testament, none of which can be taken as ‘Gospel’.
Now to Augustine. What a treasure he was. A man obsessed with sex – and like his predecessors – and some who came after him – determinedly instrumental in ensuring the continuance of the subservience of women. Here was a man who lived 400 years after Jesus died. He invented the notion of original sin, placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of the temptress woman – and that, to this day, is still taken seriously. Incredible!
Those are my thoughts on it, but if I’ve missed anything you particularly wanted to talk about, just let me know.
By the way, I like the presenter. She presents in the way that Brian Cox presents and makes it easy listening.
Good post Naomi.
I found myself wondering if Augustine's stance was a reaction to catching an interesting little disease during his years of sexual activity. Seriously.
If you want another charmer of roughly the same time, try Cyril of Alexandria (after whom cyrillic is named) and especially his actions towards the gifted mathematician and Isis priestess, Hypatia.
I found myself wondering if Augustine's stance was a reaction to catching an interesting little disease during his years of sexual activity. Seriously.
If you want another charmer of roughly the same time, try Cyril of Alexandria (after whom cyrillic is named) and especially his actions towards the gifted mathematician and Isis priestess, Hypatia.
Em, Sorry, meant to add that Joanna Bagal (Sp?), the spokeswoman who denied that women had ever been instrumental in the church said ‘The church knows its history’. Couldn’t help thinking ‘Yes, it does – but it doesn’t admit to it’.
Mosaic, ha ha! Yes, indeed. There were a lot of them about – and sadly, there still are.
Mosaic, ha ha! Yes, indeed. There were a lot of them about – and sadly, there still are.
most of what you have covered i understood, as i said i watched about three quarters of the programme, and understood the fact that by and large it was women's lot to be subservient, even in religion. I can't see that much has changed in reality, even with women vicars, the clergy seems vastly biased in it's teaching.
I would like to watch the three programmes and maybe even buy it if it comes out on dvd. i found it as you said, that it's accessible in much the same way as Professor Brian Cox is, easily understood and not so indepth that you lose your way. I am not so much into the religious aspects, but i like programmes which given you some insight in womens lives, either in the ancient world or in present day.
I would like to watch the three programmes and maybe even buy it if it comes out on dvd. i found it as you said, that it's accessible in much the same way as Professor Brian Cox is, easily understood and not so indepth that you lose your way. I am not so much into the religious aspects, but i like programmes which given you some insight in womens lives, either in the ancient world or in present day.
As to the likes of Augustine, and Cyril of Alexandria, there are equivalent men today, those who's entrenched views on women and their role in the world seem totally at odds with reality. Thanks for your views Naomi, and everyone, very very interesting and i hope that i can put forward something else of interest and see if we can't liven up a rain soaked day, or days..
anyone watch last night's episode, i thought it was very good, though i reckon the series should have been an hour long, concentrating on one woman's story in each episode. It seemed to jump around a bit too much without really adequate indepth explanation. I would have preferred say ten weeks, and then you could really get into these women's lives, most of whom were fascinating, complex characters.
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