ChatterBank3 mins ago
Need legal advice please?
In my spare time I co-manage a function band.
We got a booking back in July from a local club who pulled a band at the last moment (no idea why they pulled the initial band).
On the back of our performance that night we got another booking for mid-December, but no other bookings between July and December. This isn’t an issue as we have been building good bookings (through private functions etc) ourselves.
The band are all professional musicians with a couple having regular session gigs etc. One member has a a contract with a large music company writing music for TV shows etc. He has just let us know that he and another band member are needed in the studios in London on the date of this booking and a day either side.
We have written to the club manager politely informing him that we have no option but to pull the gig, but at least this gives him plenty of time to get another band.
We are not the main attraction for the night, simply the band providing live music on one of his Xmas party nights.
The manager has just left a really nasty threatening message on our number telling us he is going to sue us for loss of earnings and that he has a legal contract.
Nothing has been signed by us for this gig and the party night will still go ahead, so what are the loss of earnings?
Any legal bods got any advice for us regarding this please?
We got a booking back in July from a local club who pulled a band at the last moment (no idea why they pulled the initial band).
On the back of our performance that night we got another booking for mid-December, but no other bookings between July and December. This isn’t an issue as we have been building good bookings (through private functions etc) ourselves.
The band are all professional musicians with a couple having regular session gigs etc. One member has a a contract with a large music company writing music for TV shows etc. He has just let us know that he and another band member are needed in the studios in London on the date of this booking and a day either side.
We have written to the club manager politely informing him that we have no option but to pull the gig, but at least this gives him plenty of time to get another band.
We are not the main attraction for the night, simply the band providing live music on one of his Xmas party nights.
The manager has just left a really nasty threatening message on our number telling us he is going to sue us for loss of earnings and that he has a legal contract.
Nothing has been signed by us for this gig and the party night will still go ahead, so what are the loss of earnings?
Any legal bods got any advice for us regarding this please?
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I should add we have checked out the Christmas brochure for the venue and it states the following:
Live Show
The venue reserves the right to change the act
advertised at any time without notice the act
will perform in our upstairs cabaret lounge,
only cabaret ticket holders are permitted.
Cancellation of booking
We are unable to refund any monies paid in the
event of cancellation, or credit these monies for
any other purpose.
Live Show
The venue reserves the right to change the act
advertised at any time without notice the act
will perform in our upstairs cabaret lounge,
only cabaret ticket holders are permitted.
Cancellation of booking
We are unable to refund any monies paid in the
event of cancellation, or credit these monies for
any other purpose.
maybe he has printed posters and tickets and placed ads etc with your name on...?
but if you have no contract then you cant have broken it
he would have to prove you had even arranged a gig at all...did you put anything in writing?
do you know of any other bands that could do it?
why not, as a goodwill gesture, see if thye can do it and let him know...?
saves him the palava then.
but if you have no contract then you cant have broken it
he would have to prove you had even arranged a gig at all...did you put anything in writing?
do you know of any other bands that could do it?
why not, as a goodwill gesture, see if thye can do it and let him know...?
saves him the palava then.
If you have no specific written and signed agreements between the venue and the band it would be very very difficult for him to take any action against you. Legally a verbal agreements is binding but evidencing that it exists is clearly next to impossible. My only concern would be the wording you used in your letter pulling the gig. It might be that he would use this to evidence an agreement, but as he can only sue for costs incurred or losses as a direct result the fact that he has received the right to change acts counts agent his stance.
I would seriously suggest that at this stage you do nothing and see what happens. If you receive anything formal and in writing see a solicitor or your local CAB
I would seriously suggest that at this stage you do nothing and see what happens. If you receive anything formal and in writing see a solicitor or your local CAB
^^ No he hasn't printed anything with our name on (posters etc). It states in their online brochure:
"Payment is in full at time of booking or 5 days
after deposit. No deposits will be taken after
15th November. Tickets Will Then Be Issued"
..so he hasn't even had tickets printed yet (although he is claiming to!).
The band are mentioned once in the online brochure, but I got my mum to phone a request a hard copy brochure and she was told they only have the online one?
There is an email from July with the date of the booking, but as I said, he has 8 weeks to source another band (He offered us our first gig because another band had cancelled on him with two weeks notice, so it only took him two weeks to find another band in that case).
I understand what you mean about putting another band his way, but as a club owner who has live music every weekend, surely he is in a better place to source a replacement, and he is so peeved at us then he is unlikely to take kindly to us suggesting anyone else.
"Payment is in full at time of booking or 5 days
after deposit. No deposits will be taken after
15th November. Tickets Will Then Be Issued"
..so he hasn't even had tickets printed yet (although he is claiming to!).
The band are mentioned once in the online brochure, but I got my mum to phone a request a hard copy brochure and she was told they only have the online one?
There is an email from July with the date of the booking, but as I said, he has 8 weeks to source another band (He offered us our first gig because another band had cancelled on him with two weeks notice, so it only took him two weeks to find another band in that case).
I understand what you mean about putting another band his way, but as a club owner who has live music every weekend, surely he is in a better place to source a replacement, and he is so peeved at us then he is unlikely to take kindly to us suggesting anyone else.
Richard,
The e-mail below is our initial one to him:
Hi Gordon,
We have a gig in our diary at the XXXXX on 17th December, unfortunately two of our band members (all Pro players) have commitments with studio work down south on that weekend and therefore unfortunately, we will be unable to appear.
I am sorry for the inconvenience, but just wanted to give you good notice to enable you to get a replacement band on that date.
Could you please confirm receipt of this email.
The e-mail below is our initial one to him:
Hi Gordon,
We have a gig in our diary at the XXXXX on 17th December, unfortunately two of our band members (all Pro players) have commitments with studio work down south on that weekend and therefore unfortunately, we will be unable to appear.
I am sorry for the inconvenience, but just wanted to give you good notice to enable you to get a replacement band on that date.
Could you please confirm receipt of this email.
^^ Unfortunately not...we play pretty complex arrangements and whilst we do have deps for if we have one player out, having two out this close to Xmas leaves us in a bind, as we can't get two deps for this particular date.
I think the club owner thinks we have got another gig for better money (not the case), and is throwing his weight around, it was just a shock to see that having given him loads of notice his first response was to threaten with legal action!!!
Anyway, I have gone back quoting his own words from the brochure to him and he appears to have backed down, so I think it's all ok now. Should point out I do a far more responsible role in my day job and am not easily intimidated, which helps I think :)
I think the club owner thinks we have got another gig for better money (not the case), and is throwing his weight around, it was just a shock to see that having given him loads of notice his first response was to threaten with legal action!!!
Anyway, I have gone back quoting his own words from the brochure to him and he appears to have backed down, so I think it's all ok now. Should point out I do a far more responsible role in my day job and am not easily intimidated, which helps I think :)
and Rojash, you're right regarding how we accept gigs. But we are still building the band up at the moment, so can't restrict peoples other commitments just yet.
We have deps lined up for the odd gig with one missing, but until the gig diary fills up (which it is starting to do for 2012) then we have to be flexible. I kind of think Universal studios trumps a local pub/club at the moment though!
We have deps lined up for the odd gig with one missing, but until the gig diary fills up (which it is starting to do for 2012) then we have to be flexible. I kind of think Universal studios trumps a local pub/club at the moment though!
You might not have contracts as such because of the transient nature of the band members but it is still worth having one. Even if it is made clear that there may be times that a gig could be cancelled due to other commitments. Someyimes you don't have to sign things. Sometimes the tirms are implied.
To be fare to the venue organiser, unless you actually said to him 'we might have to cancel at any time becaue we have other commitments' he could be forgiven for being annouyed. Chirstmas entertainment is often booked so far in advance that it can be very difficult to get replacements.
For me it has shown your lack of professionalism and I wouldn't recomend you had that happened to me.
To be fare to the venue organiser, unless you actually said to him 'we might have to cancel at any time becaue we have other commitments' he could be forgiven for being annouyed. Chirstmas entertainment is often booked so far in advance that it can be very difficult to get replacements.
For me it has shown your lack of professionalism and I wouldn't recomend you had that happened to me.
"I kind of think Universal studios trumps a local pub/club at the moment though!"
But that's precisely my point. If you know that at any time you may have to pull out, then you need to make provision for it, either by a rider in the deal you make with a venue or by some other method. Otherwise, as cassa333 (almost) says, you are using the professionalism of some of your members to excuse the lack of it in the band as an entity.
But that's precisely my point. If you know that at any time you may have to pull out, then you need to make provision for it, either by a rider in the deal you make with a venue or by some other method. Otherwise, as cassa333 (almost) says, you are using the professionalism of some of your members to excuse the lack of it in the band as an entity.
He's entitlement to be disappointed, who wouldn't be, but there's not too much he can do about it. A verbal agreement is as strong as a written one, but of course there are no terms and agreements so it could tyurn into a wrangle.
It would be worth writing a standard contract, have it checked by a legal person and use it for future bookings and . Maybe you could write in an option to pull the gig with no penalties up to a certain time, then decide what you can and can't promise people after a cut off date.
If you don't find a way to give some sort of committment in the future (regardless of the pro's other work) you'll get a reputation for unreliability; once word gets round that the bands bookings are not as importnat as other work the bookings will soon dry up.
It would be worth writing a standard contract, have it checked by a legal person and use it for future bookings and . Maybe you could write in an option to pull the gig with no penalties up to a certain time, then decide what you can and can't promise people after a cut off date.
If you don't find a way to give some sort of committment in the future (regardless of the pro's other work) you'll get a reputation for unreliability; once word gets round that the bands bookings are not as importnat as other work the bookings will soon dry up.
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