Saturday Times The Listener 4195 Sum by Hotspur Saturday June 23rd 2012

[contendo]

Well that wasn't too bad. Now for the bottom half.

[s_pugh]

Finally! Out of the blue all became clear. Sunny-dave and tilbee are quite correct, the answer to the process requires no knowledge of the subject matter (so I could have saved a few hours Googling). Stunningly clever construction. Anyone struggling - persevere, for a wonderful PDM awaits. Best puzzle of 2012 in my view. Well done Hotspur.

[Coalminers]

Put me in the camp (no triple pun intended) of those who solved the bottom right entry before understanding the process! Very tough and very enjoyable (but I always say that last bit).

[Walterloo]

Well done all ye solvers of greater minds. I can't crack the process needed. I think I'm attacking it from the wrong angle as every time I pick it up I glaze over. Think I'm making it more complicated than it probably is. Never mind though, back to the new Magpie!

[sunny-dave]

email for a (subtle) hint if you want Walterloo

[email protected]

[Walterloo]

Thanks sunny-dave. Email on its way. I won't be submitting this one so rest assured your hint would help to put my mind at rest! After posting at 18.56 I picked it up again ten minutes later and tried once more to see the process. There was a popping sound from inside my head and I've only just regained consciousness.

[ArchieLeach]

Finally finished last night. That's the first for a month or so which hasn't either been completed or binned by the end of the weekend.

I found a spreadsheet useful once I had an inkling of the process and a few answers at the bottom. Easier than actually solving the rest of the clues!

[magichour]

Back from the dead...

I was just about ready to junk this thing but somehow finally completed the grid last night, albeit with one wrong answer. Fearing the worst about the time it would take to discover the 'process', I was fairly relieved when the penny finally dropped at lunchtime today and sorted out my wrong answer/jumbles in the process.

This has tortured me all week, almost up to the publication of 4196. Never thought I'd get there. Can only admire the magnificent grid construction. Not my most enjoyed Listener of the year, but by far the toughest challenge. On to the new one then...

[IainGrace]

Limited time to devote to this, so still three or four clues to solve before embarking on the process. Having read posts, not sure we will persevere with that. Thought we might meantime polish off 4196 as a break from this, but it doesn't look like a walk in the park either.

[crosswhit99]

Shame about the error on the bottom row, but at least it's been corrected now - it is worth persevering for the full solution Iain (I think !)

[borealis]

Coalminers and others, well done. Here I am failing to think of the bottom right letters, or so I think, therefore I am missing the link, so no process until it jumps out at me!

Only started this in the middle of last week, but still five days of hard work. Great enjoyment to be had here. The few loose definitions were eventually confirmed by crossing answers, and a lot of my assumed jumbles turned out not to be and vice versa. Anyone else come up with a very good alternative to 37d which could be made to fit by jumbling differently, until you have everything else?

Within my top five of the year so far. Thank you Hotspur.

[Cruncher]

I'm admitting defeat on this one. Tough puzzle. Still 3 clues short of a gridfill and only the flimsiest idea of how to apply the process. look forward to the answer!

[IainGrace]

Think we too are on the verge of giving up. Not a clue about the process, despite various ideas.

[crosswhit99]

If you'd like to bounce those ideas in private do drop me an e-mail at [email protected]

[easterfool]

Well - at the 11th hour + 50 minutes, I come riding in to a fully completed grid. So I can send it in - but I have no idea what on earth the 2 word phrase is. Grid staring hasn't worked either. Never mind - I know that I am right so I'll wait for further explanations. Loved it, Hotspur - many thanks

[IainGrace]

Finished with assistance from crosswhit99, thanks. Had been guddling around with some similarish ideas but to no avail. Won't submit, of course. Agree with earlier comments that the answer is only vaguely appropriate.