edward II death

[tali122]

did edward II really suffer such a brutal death or was it a sensationalized story?-who, anyway actually commited the act and who ordered it?- was he concious while this committed?

[Drusilla]

I have always believed Edward II was imprisoned in Berkeley Castle by his wife Isabella and her lover, Roger Mortimer, under the guard of Mortimer's followers. Like you, I believed he was held down on a bed in 1327and a horn was inserted into his rectum, followed by a red hot rod which pushed through this and into his internal organs, killing him.
According to a report I've just read in Wikipedia, this is all propaganda. It states he wasn't murdered at all and lived on in exile until his death in the 1340's.
I'm stunned by this and have never heard it before and would need to see it written somewhere else before I accepted it as truth.
Great question, but very strange search results. I'm shocked!!!

[jno]

You can never quite be sure with wikipedia - it's probably not the place to turn to to settle genuinely controversial questions. Some historians reckon the poker business was intended to leave no sign that he'd been murdered. Which begs the question: how does anyone know about it? It's always good to ask about the source of stories (as any journalist knows). I'm not certain what the evidence for or against this one is, and I suspect it's just anti-gay propaganda. Anyone else know any firm details?

[tali122]

i would have assumed at the time there were enough suffiecntly brutal methods at their disposal. than taking this route -or was it indeed common practice as some have suggested?

im not saying it didnt happen but there doesnt appear to be any post -murder evidence-

[Tatty Rollox]

....... well, here he is with the little picture underneath showing him actually being murdered ........

[Octavius]

I am sure that it was most definitely one of many excruciating methods of torture and execution/murder of the times and have no doubt that it was carried out atsome point or another. In Edward IIs case it could appear that the punishment may have been a disgust of his lifetime activity.

As mentioned above, many people despised the king especially the nobles but also the commoners, who he is said to have cared little for. We can only rely on what information was left to us and this was quite likely provided by the very people who did away with him.

It was said that he enjoyed the company of men more than to women and physically abused his wife Isabella. It is also written that "one night the inmates of the castle were alarmed by the shrieks which came from the kings apartment. The king was found dead. His death had been brought about by the insertion of a red hot iron into his bowels."

It seems obvious that the murder or execution? of Edward II by Sir Thomas Gourney and William Ogle (the men put in charge of him at Berkeley) was orchestrated by a much higher authority than them such as Mortimer and Isabella the Queen. After the kings death there was little remorse, especially from the people of the country.

[LordyGeordie]

I seem to remember that on David Starkey's monarchy programme it said that his death was attributed to natural causes. however, many year's after his death somebody wrote (i can't remember who) about how the old red hot poker was used. i think it said the fact that the king had been murdered would discredit whoever was on the throne at the time, so it could just be propaganda. apparently the red hot poker method was used because it would not leave any external marks on the body

i guess it's just of those things that will never be known

[tali122]

the "leave no signs of murder" is an intresting scenario- but then surely they coild have sufficated him?

[Drusilla]

Good point, Tali, but I think they chose this particular method to humiliate him for his relationships with men; particularly Piers Gaviston and Hugh Dispenser.

[twopennorth]

Ian Mortimer's "the Greatest Traitor" offers the theory that he Edward II was exiled to the continent where he lived an intinerant life for many years.

The people of England were feed the red hot poker story to prevent uprisings in his favour and perhaps to satisfy their revenge against a much disliked monarch.

I read that book a while ago so I'm happy to stand corrected if my intepretation is inaccurate.

[david_harry]

Check out Alison Weir's new book about the wife of Edwards II, the so-called 'she-wolf of France'. It discusses his death in detail. I also went to a lecture by Alison where she stated that most evidence does now support the notion that Edward II wasn't murdered altough it still coannot be conclusively proven either way