Tobacco Laws

[beso]

I understand the UK government is very interested in the leglislation just passed in Australia that will see all tobacco sold in plain brown packs with pictures of smoking related illnesses as the only decoration.

That world first change got through despite a very expensive legal battle by the tobacco companies.

The Upper House of the State of Tasmania is now working on a bill that will make the sale of tobacco illegal to anyone born after 2000.

Is this a sensible strategy or going too far?

[LazarusShort]

I don't think they should make it illegal, just make it difficult/impractical/expensive. As for the packaging, good idea, anything that curtails this disgusting habit has to be good. Even if it does bring in some tax, it's damage to society is vastly more, if we can get rid then we should. Will there still be smokers in 50 years?

[coccinelle]

The aim in Tasmania is that people won't start smoking so eventually cigarettes will become something of the past. There'll be enough publicity going through schools on the horrors of smoking to make it into something disgusting for kids to contemplate. For it to work of course the whole of Australia will have to follow.

[LazarusShort]

yes I think the 2000 idea is a bit of a half way house to prohibition, essentially it would stamp it out after a generation. Presumably at some point in the future it would then lead to full prohibition.

[237SJ]

I think they should leave the laws as they are and just go with the social engineering theory (plus high taxes). I remember the days when it wasn`t hugely frowned upon to drink and drive. When I worked in a pub as a teenager, just about all the customers (including the local policemen) used to drive home over the limit. Nowadays, anyone who does that is seen as a social pariah. I think the same is happening with smoking. I think the UK has been one of the leaders in anti-smoking legislation (at least after the USA anyway). I`m sure I remember people smoking in pubs in Australia after we banned it here. There was a rule that you could smoke as long as you sat more than 6` away from the bar.

[coccinelle]

When i was in Australia in 1998 there was no smoking in pubs and public places already. However, I didn't visit every state (but even so nearly all) so maybe where you were it was still allowed.

[xud]

I have recently quit smoking and having a real hard time of it.
As for tobacco laws, here in Taxland, sorry England, they will never make smoking illegal because it creates so much revenue, typically 3 times what it cost NHS in smoking related illnesses.

If it is made illegal there will be a thriving black market in smuggling tobacco. Probably more lucrative than cocaine I would imagine. So the poor old smoker will end up paying even more for a pack of cigarettes than what they do now.

[LazyGun]

As others have already pointed out - if your goal is to eradicate a particular practice, then as a general rule, prohibition is a spectacularly bad way of achieving it. Better by far to take incremental steps to discourage smoking through education and social disapproval.

And although there may be a net gain to the treasury from the duty raised on tobacco products, the math is not as clear cut as you might think when you factor in the costs to society of both the direct and indirect medical costs. And this is not a purely economic argument. The evidence of substantive harm that smoking does is overwhelming. The addictive nature of smoking is also well known and accepted. In such situations, the government has a moral obligation to attempt to dissuade people from smoking.

[ludwig]

They're not making cigarettes or smoking illegal, just the sale of tobacco to certain people. People born before 2000 will be able to carry on buying it for their younger friends, so there isn't a direct comparison with other drugs.

In 70 years time you may well find 80 year olds hanging around outside newsagents hassling 90 year olds..'oi mister, buy us some cigs. Here's £200 for twenty bensons'...or maybe not, because by then the practice will be pretty much obsolete because of all the other factors like cost, education, and the effect of the law itself in preventing people starting to smoke.

It's an interesting idea.

[wildwood]

There is already an illicit trade in tobacco in the South Island of New Zealand, that I know of. At the moment the prices are well below trade prices (no tax) but once it has become illegal for shops to sell, you can imagine what the price will go up to. Despite selling the properly dried etc tobacco for less than half commercial price, it still pays them to pay hefty fines and confiscation of rooms full of dryers etc. They just start up somewhere else.

While many adults are now giving up, I would like to find an authentic site that shows how young people in any western country are now smoking less, despite all the anti-social advertising so far.

[craft1948]

I have been a smoker for 52 years and I am in favour of anything which discourages young people from starting to smoke. When I started smoking it was the norm and no-one ever mentioned the affects on your health, I am very thankful that my daughter has never had the inclination to be a smoker. I am currently struggling with E-Lite cigarettes in an effort to stop/cut down on my smoking. I know how difficult this is and nothing annoys me more than rabid anti-smokers.............until you've faced this problem yourself please do not feel qualified to preach about it.

[LazyGun]

@Craft
I hope your efforts with e-lite pay off.

"I know how difficult this is and nothing annoys me more than rabid anti-smokers.............until you've faced this problem yourself please do not feel qualified to preach about it."

To whom were you addressing this comment?

[wildwood]

Good luck craft. I was enslaved for 42 years and have now been 'clean' for 8 years. I never though I could do it. I do feel for anyone who is trying to give up as I know how difficult it is and nagging is the last thing one wants.

[craft1948]

Thank you wildwood your comments are much appreciated. LazyGun I wasn't aiming my post to anyone in particular, I'm sorry if you think I was.

[Mick-Talbot]

They haven't listened to my proposal to have smokers tasered then ?

[LazyGun]

@ Craft - No worries, and thanks for the clarification. I do know, when I was still a regular smoker, that ex-smokers were often the most evangelical and frankly irritating when they talked about smoking and its dangers, and I was a bit worried I was starting to sound like that on this thread ..... :)