ChatterBank2 mins ago
works grievance procedures
29 Answers
been off work for 4 (was signed for 8 weeks) works due to stress at work, went back on thursday last week to be treated unfairly.
the job i been doing for the last 12 months i could no longer do as manager took skills off me. when i questioned it he said its because theres no work on my dept. after being took out of my original dept a warehouseman was placed in my place to help with my dept yet there was no work and i was placed in a totally different dept that actually had no work.
the machine i usually run has overtime and many jobs on there (never had has many in fact).
before i went off sick the manager told me i wouldnt last 5 minutes at the workplace.
today he has blatantly told me i couldn't use the toilet and also made racist remarks towards me.
on monday i put a grievance in against the manager, he has not been suspended but promised things will be done by the book.
the director i had to see about it is as bad as him and are thick as thieves.
i have also put a grievance in about him now and gone to head office in spain, my manager / directors do not want spain being involved.
also when the manager realised i put a grievance in against him it took him 15 mins to have my dept in the office to announce a redundancy where there is more work than ever since i been there.
also a hour after putting a grievance in about the director i was suspended for calling them f@@@ing idiots and was suspended on the count of threatening and abusive behaviour.
but only yesterday the director was hurling abuse at me in his office and shouting and shaking and going red in the face with a witness present but this is ok apparently has he's the director.
he has also escaped being suspended pending outcome of the investigation.
there are other factors i believe to be in the line of victimisation and bullying me, i also believe they are constructing a dismissal due to all the things they've said and done before when i went back. the manager and director are also breaching health and safety rules which caused a big argument when i mentioned what needed fixing.
can any one help in where to start with a case against the company for constructive dismissal and unfair treatment regarding racism, victimisation etc...
the job i been doing for the last 12 months i could no longer do as manager took skills off me. when i questioned it he said its because theres no work on my dept. after being took out of my original dept a warehouseman was placed in my place to help with my dept yet there was no work and i was placed in a totally different dept that actually had no work.
the machine i usually run has overtime and many jobs on there (never had has many in fact).
before i went off sick the manager told me i wouldnt last 5 minutes at the workplace.
today he has blatantly told me i couldn't use the toilet and also made racist remarks towards me.
on monday i put a grievance in against the manager, he has not been suspended but promised things will be done by the book.
the director i had to see about it is as bad as him and are thick as thieves.
i have also put a grievance in about him now and gone to head office in spain, my manager / directors do not want spain being involved.
also when the manager realised i put a grievance in against him it took him 15 mins to have my dept in the office to announce a redundancy where there is more work than ever since i been there.
also a hour after putting a grievance in about the director i was suspended for calling them f@@@ing idiots and was suspended on the count of threatening and abusive behaviour.
but only yesterday the director was hurling abuse at me in his office and shouting and shaking and going red in the face with a witness present but this is ok apparently has he's the director.
he has also escaped being suspended pending outcome of the investigation.
there are other factors i believe to be in the line of victimisation and bullying me, i also believe they are constructing a dismissal due to all the things they've said and done before when i went back. the manager and director are also breaching health and safety rules which caused a big argument when i mentioned what needed fixing.
can any one help in where to start with a case against the company for constructive dismissal and unfair treatment regarding racism, victimisation etc...
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its not hard to treat people with the respect that you wish to be treated with.
i'm never nasty to anyone and always willing to help out yet you get people like this that are ok till you ask for something, in my case a pay rise and i only asked what the chance of 1 was, not i want a pay rise and from that day its like they have a vendetta against me.
calling me what they did today was the last straw and i would rather be called a f'ing idiot that the racist name i was called.
i'm never nasty to anyone and always willing to help out yet you get people like this that are ok till you ask for something, in my case a pay rise and i only asked what the chance of 1 was, not i want a pay rise and from that day its like they have a vendetta against me.
calling me what they did today was the last straw and i would rather be called a f'ing idiot that the racist name i was called.
New day, new opportunity to learn (about grievance procedures and unfair dismissal).
Have you looked at my link yet - it's a succinct explanation of what employers must do. If you are thinking about an unfair dismissal claim in the future, you could do with understanding more background about the law and how employers are obliged to apply it, so do read the stuff on Direct Gov.
Bear in mind that many unfair dismissal claims by employees are upheld in favour of the employee because the employer operated an unfair PROCESS, even though the decision to dismiss (because of what the employer did) was actually justifiable.
The way your employer seems to be operating seems to indicate that it doesn't understand too much about the law - but we only have your side of events. What I mean is that on the evidence you are telling us about, the process they are following seems flawed. Which is good from your point of view.
As I said last night, the employer (and us) needs to understand what your grievance is. It isn’t an uncommon problem for an employee to have difficulty in articulating a grievance – and it should be the first job of the manager who investigates the grievance to establish (by discussion) what the employee is driving at. It seems this isn’t happening.
It sounds like you are alleging bullying, and you are citing the examples 2,3,4,5, and 8 as examples of bullying by your manager. You are being treated differently from others in a similar situation by the manager.
Personally, I’m uncomfortable with items 1and 6 (the issue about being moved off a machine) as an example of bullying. But TonyWiltshire and others may see this differently. Managers have the right to manage, and if you are just back off sick you cannot necessarily expect to just slip back into the old job. Is the issue for you that you can’t earn overtime now, but before you could?
Another complication is in items 7 and 9. I suggest you don’t include the threat of redundancy as a grievance point. You’ve got enough related to the bullying issues to force the running of a PROCESS (that word again), and redundancy, if it happens has to be done fairly IN ITS OWN RIGHT. Also your grievance started with one manager – and you complicate things if you chuck in a grievance against the director who was assigned to investigate the original grievance (though from what you say, this director doesn’t seem to have made an independent job of this).
Bullying is an important issue in employee relations, and employers have an obligation to investigate incidents in a reasonable manner. Stick with that. The outcome to you should be in writing – in the form of a letter.
Lastly, be clear about what you want out of this. An apology and an assurance of no more bullying? A means to stopping the employer attempting to dismiss you unfairly? I’m going to ask again – where are the HR experts in this organisation? A personnel officer must exist somewhere? If you are trying to continue your employment here (i.e. avoid them finding a reason to dismiss you – potentially unfairly), it is better to try and find a way of ensuring people who understand the law gets engaged in this process.
That’s enough to be going on with for now. Good luck.
Have you looked at my link yet - it's a succinct explanation of what employers must do. If you are thinking about an unfair dismissal claim in the future, you could do with understanding more background about the law and how employers are obliged to apply it, so do read the stuff on Direct Gov.
Bear in mind that many unfair dismissal claims by employees are upheld in favour of the employee because the employer operated an unfair PROCESS, even though the decision to dismiss (because of what the employer did) was actually justifiable.
The way your employer seems to be operating seems to indicate that it doesn't understand too much about the law - but we only have your side of events. What I mean is that on the evidence you are telling us about, the process they are following seems flawed. Which is good from your point of view.
As I said last night, the employer (and us) needs to understand what your grievance is. It isn’t an uncommon problem for an employee to have difficulty in articulating a grievance – and it should be the first job of the manager who investigates the grievance to establish (by discussion) what the employee is driving at. It seems this isn’t happening.
It sounds like you are alleging bullying, and you are citing the examples 2,3,4,5, and 8 as examples of bullying by your manager. You are being treated differently from others in a similar situation by the manager.
Personally, I’m uncomfortable with items 1and 6 (the issue about being moved off a machine) as an example of bullying. But TonyWiltshire and others may see this differently. Managers have the right to manage, and if you are just back off sick you cannot necessarily expect to just slip back into the old job. Is the issue for you that you can’t earn overtime now, but before you could?
Another complication is in items 7 and 9. I suggest you don’t include the threat of redundancy as a grievance point. You’ve got enough related to the bullying issues to force the running of a PROCESS (that word again), and redundancy, if it happens has to be done fairly IN ITS OWN RIGHT. Also your grievance started with one manager – and you complicate things if you chuck in a grievance against the director who was assigned to investigate the original grievance (though from what you say, this director doesn’t seem to have made an independent job of this).
Bullying is an important issue in employee relations, and employers have an obligation to investigate incidents in a reasonable manner. Stick with that. The outcome to you should be in writing – in the form of a letter.
Lastly, be clear about what you want out of this. An apology and an assurance of no more bullying? A means to stopping the employer attempting to dismiss you unfairly? I’m going to ask again – where are the HR experts in this organisation? A personnel officer must exist somewhere? If you are trying to continue your employment here (i.e. avoid them finding a reason to dismiss you – potentially unfairly), it is better to try and find a way of ensuring people who understand the law gets engaged in this process.
That’s enough to be going on with for now. Good luck.
I agree fully with buildersmate. I think it's better to have several strong issues in a grievance than a list of issues that include some minor or not so relevant ones. The manager could easily defend moving you, for example, on the basis of 'broadening your experience' or 'developing flexibility in the team'. You need to follow the grievance procedure and the onus is on your employer to handle it properly.
I am unclear about a few things you have said though.
First, you initially said you were off with stress. then you said it was the result of an injury incurred at work. Was that accident reported and was the employer negligent?
I also noted you had been signed off for 8 weeks but returned after 4 weeks. I'm not sure but I think you need a 'fit to work' note.
Also. did you say the police are involved regarding the racist comments/ No-one should have to put up with such comments.
The main point is, as buildersmate says, that you need to decide how you would like this situation to end. Do you want to leave with a payoff; do you want to continue working with an organisation that has previously treated you badly it seems; do you want to see the guilty people dismissed/disciplined. etc? What would be your preferred outcome? Whilst I would definitely not recommend leaving at this stage I think you should bear in mind that it is very difficult to see how a normal working relationship can be achieved given what has happened.
I am unclear about a few things you have said though.
First, you initially said you were off with stress. then you said it was the result of an injury incurred at work. Was that accident reported and was the employer negligent?
I also noted you had been signed off for 8 weeks but returned after 4 weeks. I'm not sure but I think you need a 'fit to work' note.
Also. did you say the police are involved regarding the racist comments/ No-one should have to put up with such comments.
The main point is, as buildersmate says, that you need to decide how you would like this situation to end. Do you want to leave with a payoff; do you want to continue working with an organisation that has previously treated you badly it seems; do you want to see the guilty people dismissed/disciplined. etc? What would be your preferred outcome? Whilst I would definitely not recommend leaving at this stage I think you should bear in mind that it is very difficult to see how a normal working relationship can be achieved given what has happened.
the issue of being taken off the machine isn't an issue if there was no work, but there has never been as much. i dont mind moving dept's but there is also a machine free not being used which has loads of work to do but only 1 person trained on it as its new (that person being person on my machine).
HR is the manager i put the original complaint in against as he is H&S FIRE MARSHALL etc... (so he's made himself indispensible to the company.
I'm in work Monday to speak to a different director to air my grievances fully and to discuss things.
They do not know the law as I mention something and they have to run in the office and phone a solicitors to verify it, they can't answer any question without speaking to a solicitor 1st
HR is the manager i put the original complaint in against as he is H&S FIRE MARSHALL etc... (so he's made himself indispensible to the company.
I'm in work Monday to speak to a different director to air my grievances fully and to discuss things.
They do not know the law as I mention something and they have to run in the office and phone a solicitors to verify it, they can't answer any question without speaking to a solicitor 1st
factor - i would like 2 outcomes and either 1 will do
1- discipline the people involved and give them what they deserve, whatever head office deem possible and written apologies and promises as to what they putting in place to stop it happening again.
2- if they can't do this then i want a pay off as i wouldn't want to go back.
i did have a fit note for when i returned to work, doctor just had to speak to me first before issuing the note
1- discipline the people involved and give them what they deserve, whatever head office deem possible and written apologies and promises as to what they putting in place to stop it happening again.
2- if they can't do this then i want a pay off as i wouldn't want to go back.
i did have a fit note for when i returned to work, doctor just had to speak to me first before issuing the note
just had my suspension statements and they are contradictory from the one manager.
he states he came out of his office to say "you're toilets are down there" this is his statement on page 2 yet on page 6 he states he asked "why are you suing those toilets?" bit contradictory, had a photo of my locker they issued me with no lock on that got broke into, no witnesses to racism (what a shocker) director states he was in his office and was unaware of a disagreement yet the manager states it happened downstairs and he witnessed it.
not really going to plan for them 100% is it
he states he came out of his office to say "you're toilets are down there" this is his statement on page 2 yet on page 6 he states he asked "why are you suing those toilets?" bit contradictory, had a photo of my locker they issued me with no lock on that got broke into, no witnesses to racism (what a shocker) director states he was in his office and was unaware of a disagreement yet the manager states it happened downstairs and he witnessed it.
not really going to plan for them 100% is it
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