Henry the 8th and Protestants

[VHG]

I have a surface level of knowledge of the Tudor period, and was always under the impression that when Henry 8th broke away from the catholic church to marry Anne Boleyn he then pushed England strongly towards a protestant religion.

But I am just reading a book giving a history of the Tudor period and I was surprised to see that Henry 8th still persecuted Protestants, even though he had broken away from the Catholic church.

I realise it was a complex time religion wise (John Knox etc) but it seems we only really went fully Protestant when Elizabeth came to the throne, not while Henry 8th was on the throne (I know we moved towards Protestant under Edward 6th but this was of course reversed under Mary).

Are there others among you who had the same misunderstanding as me about Henry 8th and his relationship about the Protestant religion?

[VHG]

The book is The Tudor Age by Jasper Ridley.

It is a facinating book giving an overview of the history of the tudor period covering the kings, queens, nobility, church etc.

But it also covers (for all the classes) how people lived and worked, the laws that were passed, how people dressed, ate, drank, the furniture they had, how they were educated, how much they earned and so on.

[ummmm]

That sounds an interesting read.

[plautus]

None whatsoever. Henry VIII separated the Church of England from Rome, i.e the authority of the Pope, but it remained catholic and , as you say, Henry cheerfully persecuted protestants until his death, although he did allow certain reforms, such as the translation of the Bible into English. On the accession of the boy king Edward VI the reformation proceeded apace, leading to a protestant church in England. The heresy laws were abolished, only to be revived on the succession of his sister, Mary Tudor, a firm papist. These were again abolished on the accession of Elizabeth I, who wished for religious tolerance. Unfortunately her hopes were dashed in 1570 by the publication of the Papal Bull:"Regnans in coelis..." in which Elizabeth was denounced as a heretic and a bastard, and it was therefore lawful for any catholic to kill her, without fear of sin. The subsequent persecution of papists derives directly from that bull, as it made all catholics potential traitors. No person ever suffered death under Elizabeth merely for being catholic; those who were executed were either guilty of plotting to overthrow the Queen or were catholic priests who, by their calling and under the Papal bull described above, were by definition traitors.

[VHG]

It is an interesting read, full of really really detailed (and interesting information).

For example Henry 8th had an illegitimate son who he made Duke of Richmond, and when he was 6 (yes SIX) he made him Lord President of the Council of the North and he had to go and live in the North of England.

The king produced a document on how the boy should be treated (and fed) and for dinner (what we call lunch now) on "ordinairy" days (non fasting days) and holy days he was to have cooked for him:

A first course of soup, two rounds of brawn, a helping of beef or mutton, with swan or goose, 28 pounds of roast veal, three roast capons, a "baked meat" or biscuit.

For his second course (!) he should have another soup, four roast rabbits, fourteen pigeons, four partridges or pheasants, a wild fowl, fruit and biscuits and 4 gallons of ale AND two pichers of wine.

He had a similar (but larger) meal in the evening (supper, what we now call dinner).

This lot was JUST for the boy, his retinue had their own food.

Much of this of course was not eaten (he was only 6) so the local poor used to stand outside the building and wait for the leftovers to be given to them.

That is the sort of level of detail throughout the book so it is very interesting.

[jno]

what Henry did was reject the authority of Rome and insist he was the boss himself. So from his point of view he was Catholic, just not Roman Catholic.

[Mosaic]

VHG, I think the simplified understanding of the English Reformation is what most kids got who were at school up to the 1980s.
Like most of history, the more you look the more complex you realise it is.

[tiggerblue10]

I used to get confused with this as well due to him being responsible for the dissolution of the monastaries. I read loads of books about Elizabeth and had a better understanding of what actually happened.

Henry VIII broke away from the Roman Catholic Church in order to divorce Catherine of Aragon, but as Jno says he was still a Catholic. Anne Boleyn was a Protestant and was influenced by William Tyndale who was influenced by Martin Luther, and so her daughter Elizabeth grew up a Protestant. Edward VI and Elizabeth's education was managed by Catherine Parr who was also a Protestant so it was during Edward's reign that the Protestant Reformation began, brought about by Thomas Cranmer.

[Mosaic]

Doc is so right. History teaching in schools has been in a parlous state for about 15 years now. Constant demands for curriculum space from toy subjects like PSHE and citizenship, plus the fact that it is not a core (required) subject, have made it a no-brainer when it comes to cutting resources at school level.
I believe that this has also been very convenient for governments of all colours in the UK as too much insight into the past makes people kind of see through their lies.

[plowter]

Good analysis by DocSausage.
History is written by the victors.
History fails to mention what happens to those stuck in-inbeteween.
The James/Henry period is very difficult.
The Protestant/Catholic war seems to be missing from British history.
Whatever the political outcome, thousands of ordinary people died.
Would Sellar and Yeatman regard that as a Good Thing?

[Duncer]

But isn't it hsitory contingent upon your own viewpoint? Certain events happened, that much is accepted, but how we interpret them will depend on so many familial/societal/cultural references.

[dundurn]

The definition of the Anglican Church is still a matter of discusion/ debate. There are Anglicans who see their ministers as priests, male and preferably celibate, and those who are happy to form ecumenical alliances with the Methodists and the United Reformed Church where ordained ministers may be female. The spectrum in between is wide and varied. The muddiness left by Henry's UDI has even affected the Prince of Wales who has indicated that Henry's title, Defender of the Faith (awarded by the Pope following Henry's denunciation of Protestantism) and still claimed by British monarchs sits uneasily with him. He would rather be known as "Defender of Faiths" in recognition of our current multicultural society. This one will run and run!