Hats and Trousers

[Upforit]

Does anybody know why it is considered bad manners to wear or leave a hat on indoors? Also, why standing with your hands in your pockets?

[andy-hughes]

The 'hands in pockets' is, or perhaps was, seen as the sign of a ne'er-do-well, a lout with no useful job to do, so he hung about on street corners with his hands in his pockets, looking for mischief.

The 'hat on indoors' I'm guessing - maybe a sign that you are keen to leave, and are making it very obvious you are not staying, by removing your hat. QM will no doubt qualify my responses.

[gary baldy]

Most of our 'bad manners' come from out dated Victorian middle class misconceptions. The two you mention are probably habits associated with working people - not the sort of people you would want in your nice middle class home.
'Manners' were used by the victorian middle classes to subjugate the working classes and we are stuck with them - although many have no relevance in modern society.
I'll get off my soapbox now!

[Quizmonster]

A hat is designed as head-protection...from sun, rain etc. Clearly, it is unnecessary indoors. Apart from that, removing your hat is simply a mark of respect. That's why men used to raise their hats to passing ladies or young men would raise their hats to older men. In the case of a uniform hat, the wearer - eg a policeman - is acknowledging by removing it that the house, office or whatever he has just entered is someone else's domain, not his.
In olden days, a knight's removal of his helmet would have been a signal that he was happy for his face to be seen and identified. It would also show that he was disarming himself by exposing his head to possible attack. Both of these were gestures of friendship.

Cheers, Andy.

[Hippy]

Hat rules devloped from respect. Mediaeval knights raised their visors revealing their faces and empty hands to show they meant no harm. Removal of the helmet indoors originated before the Dark Ages. Manners and etiquette developed into part of everyday life and the rules became:

A man removes his hat:

• when introduced to someone, or saying goodbye to a woman, elder, friend;


• as a greeting when passing someone he knows, particularly a lady, on the street;
  while talking, particularly with a woman, an older man, or a clergyman;


• while the National Anthem is being played;


• at a funeral or when a funeral procession passes;


• when speaking to another of a virtuous woman or a dearly departed loved one.

/continued ...

[Hippy]

A man tips his hat:

• when walking with a friend who passes a woman only the friend knows;


• any time a lady who is a stranger thanks you for some service or assistance;


• any time he excuses himrself to a stranger (eg accidentally jostle them, or ask for pardon when passing a tight space or when forced to walk between two people that are conversing);


• any time a stranger shows courtesy to a woman you are accompanying:


• when you ask a woman (or an elderly man) for directions.

A man always removes his hat indoors except:

• in public buildings such as railway stations or post offices;


• in the main floor of a department store;


• in entrance halls and corridors of office buildings, or hotels;


• in lifts of public or office buildings, unless a woman is present;


• if carrying packages, parcels or bags and both hands are full.

People should be familiar with what they may consider outmoded traditions of civility. If kids are going to live outside the conventions of proper etiquette, at least they should know how they are insulting and demonstrating disrespect to others as well as a lack of self-respect.

If they do it from contempt, then that is how they will be treated by others. It is like refusing to accept someone's hand when it is offered. If they do it out of ignorance, then it reflects poorly on their upbringing and they appear foolish and ill-educated.

[Grunty]

A man with his hands in his pocket tends to feel cocky.

[jno]

helmets removed indoors - the modern equivalent requires dispatch riders to remove their crash helmets when entering banks etc, or teenagers to remove hoods in Bluewater shopping mall, because they could be a disguise for robbers. The principle, I suspect, is the same: covering your head is seen as a form of hiding. With ordinary hats the danger would be more symbolic than real.

[Upforit]

Thanks for the input, guys. I had done some research myself and come up with similar answers, but couldn�t find a definitive answer. I was hoping somebody would know and where it could be found. The answer about the knight removing his helmet to be identified seems most likely, but I still think it is a bit tenuous, since knights displayed their crests or coat of arms to be identified. Maybe removing their helmet to show they weren�t about to plunge into an attack? I suppose we will never really know, for sure.
The trouser one seems to be about right, but I had wondered if it went back a little further than that, as many �obvious� explanations often prove to be wrong.
Thanks again.

[Hippy]

Removal of the helmet indoors indicated that the wearer fearned nothing from the host. So, putting on the helmet whilst still indoors indicated a preparation for combat.

[bernardo]

It isn't. The only people who incorrectly try to pretend that it is, are mad people with sad empty lives who have nothing better to do than write letters to Ceefax. ;-)

[Upforit]

Thanks, Hippy. Are you really a hippy? There aren�t many of us left!

And Bernado, you may feel that what you say is correct, but the simple fact of the matter is whether we agree with it or not, it is considered bad manners for a man to leave his hat on indoors. That is, in the days when men were men and women were happy with it that way!! (Whoops! Not very PC, but in my experience most women like men to be (gentle)men. Definition of a gentleman? A man who ladies make him feel that way. (The correct quote being �A lady is a woman who makes a man behave like a gentleman. - Russell Lynes�)

[Hippy]

Upforit: Far out, man! Gotta get my head together to gather some bread. Don't do mindgames, though! Srangely, drugs are for the weak ones, there is strength in sobriety. Don't dispose, reuse.

I am not replacing the past by living the way I do, but am creating links in a chain stretching between long before and who knows where. Peace, man, and a joyous Saturnalia.