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Agnostic atheists
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How many professed atheists on here are actually "agnostic atheists", that is to say don't believe there are any "Gods" but don't rule out the possibility, how ever remote, that there may be? I've always regarded being agnostic as being a cop-out and sitting on the fence, but at the same time I like to think I keep an open mind. I know this probably comes down to semantics, but some people do like to categorise themselves and others to fit into groups of "like thinkers".
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joko, //you either believe in god or you dont - there is no true 'evidence' either way... one is just more plausable and likely that [sic] the other.//
Have you actually looked in detail at the evidence we have? You don't seem to understand that I don't disbelieve because that is more plausible - I disbelieve because, unlike the faithful, I am not selective in my reading.
Seadogg, although I think it's highly unlikely, it's not unreasonable to consider the concept you're talking about. That's a different thing entirely to belief in the God of Abraham.
Have you actually looked in detail at the evidence we have? You don't seem to understand that I don't disbelieve because that is more plausible - I disbelieve because, unlike the faithful, I am not selective in my reading.
Seadogg, although I think it's highly unlikely, it's not unreasonable to consider the concept you're talking about. That's a different thing entirely to belief in the God of Abraham.
It is not necessarily shameful to admit you possesses insufficient knowledge to make a determination regarding whether god/s exist or not. For those who lack sufficient knowledge to make that determination, that is simply intellectual honesty. However, to believe that god/s do or do not exist in the absence of certain knowledge is belief without justification.
An atheist is someone who is without a belief that god/s exist, which is the default position from which we all start. An atheist might come to adopt the belief that god/s (any and all) do not exist, but an atheist does not necessarily believe in anything whatsoever. A lack of belief, one way or the other, does not equate with disbelief which is in fact a belief, that something is not.
The only logical approach to the question of a god's existence is to begin by acknowledging ones own ignorance regarding the issue and to not adopt a belief, either way, at the onset in lieu of certain knowledge. From this initial position of intellectual honesty, one can then ask, "What in reality is the term 'god' intended to refer to?" Then one has an idea of what their searching for and for which to make a determination of whether it correlates to or contradicts with what one knows to be real . . . once one understands the means and process for making such determinations.
Tell me what you mean by the term 'god' and I will tell you, not whether, but why I do or do not believe in or agree with your proposed meaning for the term.
An atheist is someone who is without a belief that god/s exist, which is the default position from which we all start. An atheist might come to adopt the belief that god/s (any and all) do not exist, but an atheist does not necessarily believe in anything whatsoever. A lack of belief, one way or the other, does not equate with disbelief which is in fact a belief, that something is not.
The only logical approach to the question of a god's existence is to begin by acknowledging ones own ignorance regarding the issue and to not adopt a belief, either way, at the onset in lieu of certain knowledge. From this initial position of intellectual honesty, one can then ask, "What in reality is the term 'god' intended to refer to?" Then one has an idea of what their searching for and for which to make a determination of whether it correlates to or contradicts with what one knows to be real . . . once one understands the means and process for making such determinations.
Tell me what you mean by the term 'god' and I will tell you, not whether, but why I do or do not believe in or agree with your proposed meaning for the term.
Religion is an out-dated, irrelevant tool created by man to keep law and order in place. ''Step out of line and God will punish you.'' It's not real and society IS evolving past it.
Religion is the most harmful thing to come from the evolution of intelligence. What started as a means of understanding our existence has mutated into the ugly thing it is today. A tool of subjugation.
Your point about catagorising is mute. Everything is catagorised and compartmentalised. Food is catagorised, animals are catagorised, sexuality is catagoriesed. We need labels as general terms of description so that others know what we're talking out. It helps in conversation to be as specific as we can to be understood. That is the progression of language. Your being uncomfortable about names and labels is fashionable but limited.
In short, yes, I'm an Athiest.
Religion is the most harmful thing to come from the evolution of intelligence. What started as a means of understanding our existence has mutated into the ugly thing it is today. A tool of subjugation.
Your point about catagorising is mute. Everything is catagorised and compartmentalised. Food is catagorised, animals are catagorised, sexuality is catagoriesed. We need labels as general terms of description so that others know what we're talking out. It helps in conversation to be as specific as we can to be understood. That is the progression of language. Your being uncomfortable about names and labels is fashionable but limited.
In short, yes, I'm an Athiest.
bundleone, >>>I suppose I am an atheist because I dont beleive in a god, but still call myself a christian because I live by christian values, [sic]<<<
Do you mean you have a good moral standard that you live by, just remember that morals were around long before Christianity and religion does not have the monopoly on being good.
Do you mean you have a good moral standard that you live by, just remember that morals were around long before Christianity and religion does not have the monopoly on being good.
I realised it's impossible to be an atheist rather than an agnostic as it implies they know there isn't a god. The clues may be so well hidden to many they are absent altogether, but that in itself doesn't rule it out, as there are many hidden things we'll never be able to see but some have been found to exist by other means.
Having said that I suspect the view of god if it did exist would be so far from the reality even if there was one people are looking for the wrong signs. If you are determined to look then you need a spiritual development course as there are few if any outward manifestations, but all personal anecdotes, making it impossible to share with others. Therefore any revelations have only been personal and as yet no examples of anything even coming close to the public in general.
Having said that I suspect the view of god if it did exist would be so far from the reality even if there was one people are looking for the wrong signs. If you are determined to look then you need a spiritual development course as there are few if any outward manifestations, but all personal anecdotes, making it impossible to share with others. Therefore any revelations have only been personal and as yet no examples of anything even coming close to the public in general.
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