B17 Flying Fortress.

[anotheoldgit]

Here are some fantastic colour pictures of mainly the B17 Flying Fortress of the US 8th Army Air force.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294284/WWII-color-Rare-photos-1942-Flying-Fortress-bombers-heroic-crews-The-Mighty-8th-Command.html

[Clanad]

The most impressive stats for this ancient warrior though, was the fact that from inception to first flying prototype was only a year and that was somewhat extended because the first flying ship crashed (due to someone inadvertently leaving the elevator gust lock on). The second impressive stat that reflects the "Greatest Generation" is that the average age of B-17 pilots was 22.
They averaged 6 missions as longevity but were required to complete 25... if they lived long enough. I think it was October of 1943 during a single raid on Germany, 60 ships and 600 men were lost.

[EDDIE51]

Thanks for that Clanad . It is not often realised that the life expectancy of a new WWII fighter pilot was under an hour. I know a guy who was tail gunner on a Lancaster and flew 54 missions, the average was 3 !

[paddywak]

I had an uncle who served in the RAF during the war but we never knew in what capacity, neither he or my aunt ever talked about it he'd only ever say he was In the RAF. It was only after he died and my cousin was clearing the house that we found his old log book and papers, he'd been a navigator on Lancasters, completed 29 missions and been wounded twice. He enlisted the day after his eighteenth birthday. We don't now how lucky we are compared to those old boys and girls.

[LankyLanky]

There are still a few bits of a B17 on Arenig Fawr (2802 feet). Crashed in poor visibility during a training flight in 1943. There is a memorial to the crew at the summit. I recall the pilot was from Idaho.

[Peter Pedant]

I remember my father telling me in the fifties (and his fifties) that the Fortress had side mounted guns (and indeed the photos bear this out) as a design idea, and in practice they were absolutely....crap.

Something to do with the rel velocity of approach.

The loss of 60 aircraft I think led to the cessation of day light bombing for year or so. Radar had been used incredibly efficiently by the RAF for defence and incredibly efficiently by the German Air Force for offence - but neither side really got it together for the converse ( RAF for bombing Germany and GAF for defence).

Bomber Command after the war went incredibly quiet after the war. I think the servicemen got tired of being told by teenagers that they were bad war criminals for unrestricted bombing of defenceless German civilians and cities - whereas in fact the truth was they flew over Germany and got their arses shot off night after night.

Oh yeah that's right - because they were armed as bombers
the powers that be sent them out without fighter escort
and they got massacred.

[LankyLanky]

Bomber command suffered over 55,000 aircrew lost during WW2. US bomber losses on top of that. They were sitting ducks.

[askyourgran]

We were grateful for all the help we could get in WWII, there may have been a very different outcome here without the B17's and their crews and all the other brave men who fought and died here. Where would we have been without the 'Capitalist killing machines', speaking German no doubt.

[Teddio]

In theory a "box formation" of B17s with .50 calibre machine guns should be able to defend itself against enemy fighters. In practice this was not the case due to sophisticated attack strategies by the Luftwaffe.
What made the difference to the effectiveness of bombing attacks by the USAAF was the use of escort fighters such as the Thunderbolt and, especially, the Mustang.