Has The Welfare System Created A Monster?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2303071/Michael-Philpotts-story-shows-pervasiveness-evil-born-welfare-dependency.html

Do you agree that the welfare system, the concept of which at first was a blessing, has now created a monster, as has been shown in this tragic case?

It has created a completely different species of human being, as has been shown with the various individuals interviews over this case, they tend to have a different look from the norm, so much so that some are have even been given a name, 'CHAVs'.

These are not the usual 'poor', in fact there are many who live in council houses, (now called social housing) who may not be 'well off' but are decent hard working people, who not only take a pride in themselves but also tend to live to a certain standard of morals.

/// Philpott had also fathered another six children by three other women. As far as can be known, he never contributed so much as a penny towards the upkeep of any of these 17 children, all of whom were born into dependency on state benefits. ///

/// His story throws into surreal relief the row between the Tories and Labour this week about Iain Duncan Smith’s much-needed benefit reforms. While the Left and the Church cry that they are unfair and immoral, the Government argues calmly that what is immoral is leaving families such as Michael Philpott’s to languish on benefits for generations. ///

/// Indeed, Philpott never even attempted to find a job. The children owed their existence to his desire to milk the welfare system. ///

[anneasquith]

daffy, im sorry, i didnt know of your circumstances.

[daffy654]

I was just trying to point out that not all pensioners deserve respect automatically, not saying that all (or even the majority) are scumbags like my mum.

[jim360]

Goodness only knows what it must be like to hate your mother, never talk to here, the woman who brought you into the world. I'm not sure whether or not I should feel sorry to you. Though, from the sounds of things, you don't seem to sad to be out of contact with her.

Again, though, one single exceptional case shouldn't define the entire group and tarnish the reputations of everyone in it. Nor, for that matter, should we assume everyone in a particular group of people on state benefits (pensioners, the sick, unemployed, whatever the case may be) are all goody two-shoes.

[emmie]

i suspect that most just got on in life, worked, raised a family. Just like this vile man, not all blokes are like that, thanks heavens.

[Sqad]

em...well i know that i keep banging on about this, but your experience was the same as mine. grandad worked, grandma took in washing, biological mother worked as a waitress and took in sewing in the evening. i was an errand boy, did a paper round, but never...never did i hear the word "benefits."

So in answer to AOG's question....based on my experiences:
\Has The Welfare System Created A Monster?\\

The answer is YES....not a human monster.....but an administrative monster....one that we cannot afford.

[Zeuhl]

/first i worked all my life, as did my mother, as did her mother, as did her mother, so not sure how one can label all pensioners in that way./

don't think anyone was em

a few of us were just addressing aog's rather simplistic opposing generalisation;

benefits scroungers on one side (Undeserving)
Pensioners on the other (Paid in so deserving)

As has been pointed out above, 'pensioners' can't be assumed to have paid in or 'served their country'

[emmie]

looking at it that way perhaps. everyone bar the old man, who was a useless fecker, worked. My mother did lots of jobs to put food on the table and clothes on our backs, grandmother and my great grandparents worked full time, as did their folks, i can take most of the family some way back now...

[humbersloop]

sqad, if we agreed again, it would be twice in one day

I'm going out now ;)....

[emmie]

daffy experiences may have tainted her viewpoint a little, and no i don't think all people are good or all people are bad, i was just pointing out that contrary to today, all the women and all the men, bar the one already mentioned worked, it was shameful not to.

[emmie]

i can only go on my own experiences, and not just of family, but extended family, and those friends of my mother, grandmother, it was a time of real hardship, but they managed.. i lost distant family in both wars, one joined up age 16 in WW1, and several others were killed in WW2.

[sp1814]

No...the benefits system did not create this monster.

Greed and fecklessness wasn't behind this crime. It was evil. It was the desire for some kind of twisted revenge on an ex-mistress.

You could argue that the number of deaths can be attributed to the benefits available to those who don't want to work - but certainly not the crime itself.

[emmie]

however he was not just angry at the ex but loss of benefits could be a part of it, so money is involved, he was after a bigger house for the whole family..

[Zeuhl]

Now he's in THE Big House

[emmie]

he is lucky not to be swinging from the rafters.

[pdq1]

Cases have come to light only recently where a parent claims child benefit for a child that lives in another country. That can't be right can it. Many of these children live in countries with much lower living standards than here.

[pdq1]

This was in 2009. I hate to think what the situation is now!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/majornews/6475165/Britain-pays-child-benefit-for-more-than-50000-children-living-abroad.html

[sp1814]

pdq1

But on the bright side - their parents aren't killing them by torching their homes.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// Greed and fecklessness wasn't behind this crime. It was evil. It was the desire for some kind of twisted revenge on an ex-mistress. ///

If you have read into this crime you will find that greed was behind this crime.

Yes you are right in thinking it was a kind of twisted revenge on his ex-mistress, but not because he had lost her, but because she had taken her children with her, and the loss of all that extra benefit money, was the real reason for his revenge.

[emmie]

he had asked the council for a bigger place, as well as the loss of benefits when the other children left, evil, conniving, controlling man.