Conservative Party In Disarry?

[Gromit]

The Conservative Party is split over Europe, and plan to embarrass Cameron.

// Downing Street said it would tell ministers to abstain this week from a key vote that effectively calls for Mr Cameron’s pledge to have an in/out referendum on Europe in 2017 to be put into law.
Eurosceptic MPs are planning a vote that will “express regret” that the Queen’s Speech did not contain a “paving Bill” for a referendum — an absence that has prompted fury among Tory backbenchers.
Downing Street said that ministers would be expected to abstain from the vote — creating the almost unprecedented situation where members of the Government would not vote in support of the Queen’s Speech.
The plan creates a loyalty test for every Cabinet minister and more junior members of the Government.
If any of the approximately 100 ministers and parliamentary private secretaries (PPEs) were to vote for the motion, it would be a huge embarrassment to Mr Cameron. //

Is this mess of Cameron's own making?
Should the Euro Skeptics just go and join UKiP?
Will they ruin another Party leaders reign like they did with John Major?

-----

The Story is in the Telegraph if you want to read it all. I am not linking to it because of their paywall.

[whiskeryron]

aog, I put it on this thread because it is relevant to the title of the thread.

Conservative Party In Disarray?

WR.

[FredPuli43]

See,aog, a later printing ? Are you now to query the word 'printing' ? You must be able to conjure up an argument that it is not the exact word ?It would be a better complaint than one about a misspelling or a simple 'typo'.Out of interest,why do you remark on such matters? They do not confirm or deny any validity in your argument.

[FredPuli43]

(I now await a complaint about my use of question marks)

[modeller]

All this talk about a referendum is important to the general public but what we want to know specificallly, is what we will be negotiated.

//Mr Hammond said: "I believe that we have to negotiate a better solution that works better for Britain if we are going to stay in //

And that is the crunch, we want to know now what are the red lines if we are to stay in. Many people would be willing to stay in if we regained control over most of our affairs, not just a few which is the best we could hope for.

Cameron must spell out what are our minimum requirements and failure to get them would precipiate our withdrawal.
He wont of course . He wants to be re-elected and may then do a little negotiating which he will try to kid us it's a good deal.

However the bottom line is ,it doesn't matter what we want , we wont get it,
our EU partners will veto it.
In the meantime Dave has got a self inflicted rebellion. Ed is failing to support the working class ,who are being affected most by the EU failings. and he wont even offer a referendum or where he stands on negotiations.

Is it any wonder both Labour and Tory voters are turning to UKIP.

[Gromit]

I thought 'disarry' looked wrong when I did it, but the iPad checker didn't highlight it. I think it may be an American spelling as I have found my wrong spelling used such as this example from the New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/13/world/soviet-disarry-baker-sees-opportunities-risks-soviet-republics-grope-for.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

I suspect jake's 'risk' and 'rest' was a predictive text error.

[ichkeria]

"Is it any wonder both Labour and Tory voters are turning to UKIP. "

UKIP are getting the "Thatcherite"

[ichkeria]

(done it again!)
UKIP are getting the "Thatcherite" working class Tory vote, to the alarm of the Thatcherite Tories and others in marginal seats.
However their policies in general, from what one can make of them, are not going to appeal to anyone else on the political spectrum.
And there is a large constituency in the centre and the left who sensibly see the EU as a good thing. But who in any case don;t hold it as a priority issue because they know that the EU is not the reason for most of Britain's perceived ills

[emmie]

not all, but plenty, if the general population sees that because of EU interference, legislation, call it what you like, we can't get rid of extremists, lowlifes and general scum of the day who have no business being in UK, bunked in illegally, then sometimes one wonders what use is the EU, that of course is only one problem, there are lots more. UKIP did well because they have been telling people what they want to hear, that isn't a surprise, some understand we may well be better alongside other Europeans in the EU, however this isn't what many signed up for back in the good old days of the EEC. Trade is good, it's our lifeblood, however what we have now is a whole different kettle of fish, constrained no doubt by EU fishing rights.

[ichkeria]

"because of EU interference, legislation, call it what you like, we can't get rid of extremists, lowlifes and general scum of the day who have no business being in UK, bunked in illegally"

Which of course is one of the misconceptions ...
Why should the EU be expected to do that :-)

[Gromit]

// not all, but plenty, if the general population sees that because of EU interference, legislation, call it what you like, we can't get rid of extremists, lowlifes and general scum of the day who have no business being in UK, bunked in illegally, then sometimes one wonders what use is the EU //

Being unable to get rid of Qatada and his mates is because of the European Court of Human Rights not the EU. We joined under Churchill but did not accept their juristiction until 1966, long before we became part of the EEC.

[modeller]

You are right Gromit and that highlights the problems with Europe.
You only have to read the newspapers to see the mess it all is.
We have our own legal system , the EU legal system, the Council of Europe,
the ECHR, the CJEU, the ECFI, etc.
All these bodies are run by lawyers and judges appointed by the member states. So you might split hairs about which particular institution releases murderers and terrorists on to our streets but they all have the power to over rule our law. In addition everyone of them has been changed several times since we joined them. The ECHR is the one that causes us the greatest legal trouble .