Goths

[Jae1000000]

Hi every one, I have a question that has been bugging me for ages and I can't find the answer in spite of the use of google. What I would like to know is what is the link between the modern sub culture Goths and the ancient German tribes who were known as the Goths, why do the modern day sub culture Goths call themselves by this ancient German tribe name, what are the connection.
Thanks to all those who can help.

Ta ra all

[emeritus]

I thought it was that Goths are followers of Gothic Rock music. ?

[Davethedog]

Goth (n.) Old English Gota (plural Gotan) "a Goth" (see Gothic). In 19c., in reference to living persons, it meant "a Gothicist" (1812), "an admirer of the Gothic style, especially in architecture." Modern use as an adjective in reference to a subculture style is from 1986, short for Gothic.
By 1982, when the legendary Batcave club opened in London, the music press had begun to use the term gothic rock to describe the music and fandom around which a new postpunk subculture was forming. [Lauren M.E. Goodlad & Michael Bibby, "Goth: Undead Subculture," 2007]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=goth

[emeritus]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_rock

[mrs_overall]

The Goths came about in the 1980's as an offshoot of punk/new romance. They are nothing whatsoever to do with ancient German tribes.
Originally linked with Victorian Gothic literature and clothes, the subculture has split into many branches, including steampunk goths (long story).
They all have one thing in common - music

[jake-the-peg]

I believe this to be a tenuous and convoluted process along these lines.

The sort of medieval architecture was originally called 'Gothic' as an insult really in comparison with the classical revival period with Roman collumns etc.

In the mid 19th century you had a 'gothic revival' period harking back to all sorts of pre-industrial values - William Morris / Pre-Raphaelites / Pugin all that stuff.

At the same time or perhaps as part of this you had the Victorean Giothic Novel - Frankenstein/Dracula all that good stuff and it is the dark brooding atmospheres that today's Goths so like.

[mrs_overall]

PS I live in the Goth capital of the world!

[Davethedog]

Barnsley?

[mrs_overall]

lol

[jake-the-peg]

I would imagine mrs O. would have 'jetted' over ? :c)

[mrs_overall]

groan@jake

[Jae1000000]

Jake - the - peg: Thanks for explaining this to me, why was the term goth consider an insult in comparison to the Roman styled building, was the gothic style building considered to be unrefined like the ancient German tribes?.
I do find all this stuff very interesting.

[jake-the-peg]

That's rather difficult

From our modern aesthetic ( certainly from mine ) Gothic archetecture like Chartres Cathedral is a soaring example of beauty.

But you have to think back to the Renaissance when the world was rediscovering Classical architecture - to those who had studied the writings of Vitruvius on propotrtion in Roman Architecture those forms seemed the height of sophistican a golden age of beauty.

The Old Cathedrals must have felt to them like 70's tower blocks do to us.

Well maybe that's an exageration but they must have felt at the very least very old fashioned.

So the term Gothic was applied as if thrown up by a barbaric tribe - much in the same way that the term Vandal was borrowed in a derrogatory fashion from a different tribe.

I guess they might have as easilly termed them Gaulish or Hunnish, but they didn't and the term stuck

[Jae1000000]

jake - the - peg: I am correct in stating that fast forward three hundred years or so the novels such as Frankenstein and Dracula etc which were set in an Gothic backdrop, later on during the early 1980s started have have a following which we now know as the modern day goths ??. Thank you for explaining this to me as I always wondered about this.

[emmie]

i always thought they were called visigoths..

[emmie]

Mrs O i thought that was Whitby, as i know they hold a festival of sorts at the abbey

[Jae1000000]

Em10: There were two main German tribes the Ostragoths, the prefix Ostra is Latin for Eastern, ie goths who came from the East and the prefix Visi is Latin for the Goths who came from the West, collectively they were known as the Goths.

Toorah loorah all.