National Anthem

[jgs]

Can an English sports team simply adopt an alternative to God Save The Queen (i.e Jerusalem) or is there some historical piece of legislation which would need changing first?

[Loosehead]

There's no legislation, it's just tradition.

[jgs]

Cool cheers.

[Tatty Rollox]

...... God Save the Queen ......

[waimarie]

I have to admit to getting mildly irritated On Saturday when they played 'God Save the Queen' at the England v Wales international.

The Welsh played their traditional national song (forget which one!!) whilst the English played the national anthem.

Surely it is either one thing or the other. Either the national anthem is played for both teams or, the English play a traditional song, 'Land of Hope and Glory', 'Greensleeves', 'On Ilkely Moor' or something similar.

We keep banging on about Englishness (whatever that means) and then blithley ignore a golden opportunity to express it.

[Quizmonster]

'Land of Hope and Glory' is used as England's 'anthem' on occasions such as the Commonwealth Games, when an athlete's success has to be marked specifically in a way to show his/her Englishness as opposed to Scottishness, Welshness or Northern Irishness...not to mention Australianness and so forth!
However, the 'land' in the original version referred to the UK and not just to England. It was, after all, a line in the 'Coronation Ode' written by AC Benson to accompany Elgar's 'Pomp and Circumstance March No 1' music. It was for Edward VII's coronation and he - just like the present queen - was monarch of Great Britain and not just England. So, it is a �national anthem' only in the sense that 'Flower of Scotland' is a �national anthem'...ie merely an occasional one.

[Grunty]

Quizmonster - Australianness is usually expressed by the Australian national anthem 'Advance Australia Fair'.

A couple of years ago I upset some Australian tourists in Russia by mistaking it for 'God Bless the Prince of Wales'.

[hopalong]

God Save the Queen is not the English national anthem. Despite that they think it's the British National anthem. Something the English seem to forget

[jgs]

Wales had 2 national anthems on Saturday, theirs and the British one. England only had the British one. I've written to RFU to ask why they insist on playing it. It has to be Jerusalem doesn't it?

(Mind you, compared to the tedious festival of music and fireworks that the other home nations subject us to before a match, GSTQ is very no nonsense and punchy which I like.)

[Quizmonster]

Grunty, Perhaps what I said was ambiguous, but it was not my intention to suggest the Australians shared our national anthem. I simply picked them out as an illustration of a Commonwealth country from which England needed to be distinguished at the Commonwealth Games. I could as easily have chosen Barbados, New Zealand, Zambia or wherever, all of which I'm sure have anthems, too. Cheers

[jno]

there's no law, though if the monarch is actually present there may be some courtesy involved in playing God Save the Queen. Otherwise, perhaps they could play those two lines of Swing Low Sweet Chariot which are all anyone seems to know and which seem so very English.

Nice idea, though waimarie: the All Blacks do a haka, then the England team respond by singing Greensleeves. Hmmm.

[Trojanfarce]

jgs - spot on, it has to be Jerusalem. I'm seriously fed up of listening to that dire dirge on match days when everyone else has an anthem that they sing with genuine passion. Did you get a reply from the RFU?

[jno]

can't stand Jerusalem - that sounds really dirgy to me (GSTQ is a waltz and could be played much faster if anyone wanted) - as Wikipedia says, 'the first verse is a series of questions to which the 'truthful' answer is no, while the second frames a series of demands to which the reply might well be 'get them yourself'.'

The real problem with GSTQ is that it's a hymn to a single person, whereas other national anthems are hymns to the whole country. Perhaps it's time someone came up with a proper one, for England, not rabbiting on about dark satanic mills or my lady Greensleeves. You could start like the opening line of the Ukrainian anthem: 'Ukraine isn't dead yet...'

[Stu in USA]

jgs, while I totally agree that England need its own National Anthem, jno's suggestion of "Swing Low" is not the answer. Apart from the fact it's only heard at Rugby matches, it is an African American spiritual song!!

[jno]

yuss, had my tongue ever so slightly in my cheek there Stu... I believe the crowd started singing it the first time a black player turned out for England, which doesn't say much for its use.

[Quizmonster]

As a Scotsman, J, I've always thought it would be much better if - after the All Blacks' haka - the English performed the dance they consider to be their national dance. Something involving tinkly bells and fluttery hankies would really terrify these antipodean softies!

[jno]

quite agree QM, but the authorities simply don't recognise what a crowd-pleasing spectacle it would be. I'd like to see the little bells incorporated into the England rugby strip.

[JamesEverton]

By that logic the Scots would have to play wearing skirts!

This would normally be an opportunity to smirk at their ability on the field but after the result against France I'll keep it lipped.

[Quizmonster]

Ah, yes, James, but I'd be quite happy for the English players to hand in their clogs...is that what morris-men wear?..sticks, bells, straw hats, sashes etc before the starting whistle. On the same basis, presumably, you would permit the Jocks to remove their kilts? However, a Highland Fling or a Sword Dance might seem just a trifle more intimidating, don't you think?