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Why Is The Bible Good News . Update.
36 Answers
You will remember last week I was going to the above talk. I went there and pointed out the only good news was to tyrants who wanted to copy Gods violence . I then produced a poem I had written to demonstrate how badly the bible treated women .
My contribution was received in deathly silence. The speaker tried to wriggle around it and suggested it might be a good subject in the future.
For what its worth here it is : It needs to be read aloud.
Women’s Rights according to the Bible:
....................................................
Women listen , this what you must do .
Obey your husbands , it’s God’s word so it must be true.
It’s there in Genesis three
Desire your husband and he shall rule over thee.
........................................................................
And if we look at Corinthians 11 and 14’
A women’s role there can be clearly seen ..
Keep silent and by your husband be led .
As the law saith in everything he is the head.
.........................................................................
And as is stated in Ephesian fives
The message is clear to all the wives.
For the husband is head of the wife
To him must she dedicate her whole life.
........................................................................
I n Collosian three –eighteen
The message repeats itself again and again.
Wives of this you must admit
Unto you husbands you must submit.
.........................................................................
Peter, Titus and Timothy have no time for women’s chatter.
These are the things that really matter.
Do not usurp the man’s authority
Be obedient and subjective to his superiority.
My contribution was received in deathly silence. The speaker tried to wriggle around it and suggested it might be a good subject in the future.
For what its worth here it is : It needs to be read aloud.
Women’s Rights according to the Bible:
....................................................
Women listen , this what you must do .
Obey your husbands , it’s God’s word so it must be true.
It’s there in Genesis three
Desire your husband and he shall rule over thee.
........................................................................
And if we look at Corinthians 11 and 14’
A women’s role there can be clearly seen ..
Keep silent and by your husband be led .
As the law saith in everything he is the head.
.........................................................................
And as is stated in Ephesian fives
The message is clear to all the wives.
For the husband is head of the wife
To him must she dedicate her whole life.
........................................................................
I n Collosian three –eighteen
The message repeats itself again and again.
Wives of this you must admit
Unto you husbands you must submit.
.........................................................................
Peter, Titus and Timothy have no time for women’s chatter.
These are the things that really matter.
Do not usurp the man’s authority
Be obedient and subjective to his superiority.
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No,honest, God-fearing persons are not interested in twisting the Scriptures “to their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:16) To avoid doing this, they find all the scriptures dealing with the subject they are trying to understand. When scriptures are found that clearly contradict previously held views, those views are quickly discarded, as they cannot be correct.
So then how good it is to know that the Bible is not open to just any interpretation. When we allow its Author to interpret it for us, as it say ,“beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.” Then, and only then, will it make us “fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.”—2 Timothy 3:16, 17.
So then how good it is to know that the Bible is not open to just any interpretation. When we allow its Author to interpret it for us, as it say ,“beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.” Then, and only then, will it make us “fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.”—2 Timothy 3:16, 17.
"When we allow its Author to interpret it for us..."
By that statement alone you reveal that you don't even know what 'The Bible' is.
It's just an anthology of ancient writings, even accepting that some were 'written' by God, and some being acknowledged as being written by a person - it's just a collection of ancient writings. Many, many, ancient writings were made, only a few appear in the collection you call 'The Bible', and they were surely chosen by a Human who you have no idea what his motivations were.
By that statement alone you reveal that you don't even know what 'The Bible' is.
It's just an anthology of ancient writings, even accepting that some were 'written' by God, and some being acknowledged as being written by a person - it's just a collection of ancient writings. Many, many, ancient writings were made, only a few appear in the collection you call 'The Bible', and they were surely chosen by a Human who you have no idea what his motivations were.
Goodlife - //So then how good it is to know that the Bible is not open to just any interpretation. When we allow its Author to interpret it for us, as it say ,“beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.” Then, and only then, will it make us “fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.”—2 Timothy 3:16, 17. //
Oh really?
Then Judges 19:22-30 make interesting reading in light of that.
Oh really?
Then Judges 19:22-30 make interesting reading in light of that.
goodlife //When scriptures are found that clearly contradict previously held views, those views are quickly discarded, as they cannot be correct. //
Exactly. Each reader sees what they want to see and the Bible is so contradictory that has something to back every position.
There is specific support for misogynists and homophobes, even those who commit genocide.
Exactly. Each reader sees what they want to see and the Bible is so contradictory that has something to back every position.
There is specific support for misogynists and homophobes, even those who commit genocide.
chrisgel@
//Murder, rape, sacrifice and slavery. It's all there and doesn't need interpreting,//
But who is doing all this? Nations who worshipped pagan gods! This is why Almighty God had them overthrown by the Isrealite army. Just as he removed the pagan nations back then he is going to bring an end to the world as we know it today.
For example, today - when there are reports of a dictator/regime/ruler committing genocide or just committing atrocities for the sake of it - what do the so called "good" countries do? They go and get rid of the "baddies". But at the end of the day, what do they "good guys" do? More often than not, they do very much what the "bad guys" do. They murder, torture, rape etc.
So what about when you read history books relating accounts of how opposing factions acted, do you consider that a load of distorted interpretation?
//Murder, rape, sacrifice and slavery. It's all there and doesn't need interpreting,//
But who is doing all this? Nations who worshipped pagan gods! This is why Almighty God had them overthrown by the Isrealite army. Just as he removed the pagan nations back then he is going to bring an end to the world as we know it today.
For example, today - when there are reports of a dictator/regime/ruler committing genocide or just committing atrocities for the sake of it - what do the so called "good" countries do? They go and get rid of the "baddies". But at the end of the day, what do they "good guys" do? More often than not, they do very much what the "bad guys" do. They murder, torture, rape etc.
So what about when you read history books relating accounts of how opposing factions acted, do you consider that a load of distorted interpretation?
With regard to the OP.
when you read the Bible thoroughly and not just surface reading then you will get the full understanding. Throughout the Bible there are accounts that show women are respected, appreciated and rewarded. Many were outspoken and some were wicked.
Even a prostitute changed her ways and became an ancester of Jesus Christ and because of her obedience, she and her family were saved.
So yes, the Bible does give certain guide lines with regard to women, but it does not relegate women to second place. Men are directed to listen to their wives, to honour them and give them due respect and to love them. What is wrong in that? What woman would not want to receive honour, respect and love? And have her husband listen to her and respect her viewpoint?
Also, I noticed you mentioned nothing about Proverbs 31!!
when you read the Bible thoroughly and not just surface reading then you will get the full understanding. Throughout the Bible there are accounts that show women are respected, appreciated and rewarded. Many were outspoken and some were wicked.
Even a prostitute changed her ways and became an ancester of Jesus Christ and because of her obedience, she and her family were saved.
So yes, the Bible does give certain guide lines with regard to women, but it does not relegate women to second place. Men are directed to listen to their wives, to honour them and give them due respect and to love them. What is wrong in that? What woman would not want to receive honour, respect and love? And have her husband listen to her and respect her viewpoint?
Also, I noticed you mentioned nothing about Proverbs 31!!
Ideosyncracy - What a truly pathetic attempt at changing the subject. Do you think that answering a question with your own loaded question is something new to me. //But who is doing all this?//
It's you faithheads that insist your god is all powerful blah blah!
Was he then incapable of establishing a kingdom without the need for murder, rape, sacrifice and slavery?
(It is at this point when you reply that I don't understand and that's not what god intended and you will try to interpret the bible for me and we will be back to what I said in the first place.)
It's you faithheads that insist your god is all powerful blah blah!
Was he then incapable of establishing a kingdom without the need for murder, rape, sacrifice and slavery?
(It is at this point when you reply that I don't understand and that's not what god intended and you will try to interpret the bible for me and we will be back to what I said in the first place.)
idiosyncrasy, //But who is doing all this? Nations who worshipped pagan gods! This is why Almighty God had them overthrown by the Isrealite [sic] army. //
Nonsense! The Jews did their fair share. For slavery read, among others, Leviticus, for rape read, among others, Deuteronomy, murders in the bible are too numerous to mention, and as for sacrifice, the most horrendous of all was orchestrated by God himself!
//the Bible does give certain guide lines with regard to women, but it does not relegate women to second place.//
It most certainly does.
1 Corinthians 14:34-36
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands
Where on earth do you get your ideas from? Oh, yes. Proverbs 31.
Nonsense! The Jews did their fair share. For slavery read, among others, Leviticus, for rape read, among others, Deuteronomy, murders in the bible are too numerous to mention, and as for sacrifice, the most horrendous of all was orchestrated by God himself!
//the Bible does give certain guide lines with regard to women, but it does not relegate women to second place.//
It most certainly does.
1 Corinthians 14:34-36
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1 Peter 3:1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands
Where on earth do you get your ideas from? Oh, yes. Proverbs 31.
Idio, So what you are saying is that you have a better understanding of the bible because you have read it in depth? How dyou know you have plumbed the depths thoroughly? How do you know that you have 'interpreted these depths accurately? You don't do you? You are doing what all believers do, you are 'interpreting' and matching the 'interpretation to your own prejudices just as every other believer does, which is why so many religions and cults spring from the same writings.
My daughter was recently told by a vicar after a baptism that the church building be it a small chapel or a cathedral ,it is the house of God on earth where you speak to God and he to you.
Maybe he didn't realise my daughter was a woman and as such was not allowed to speak in church. So that would be a problem.
Maybe he didn't realise my daughter was a woman and as such was not allowed to speak in church. So that would be a problem.
idio //So yes, the Bible does give certain guide lines with regard to women, but it does not relegate women to second place. Men are directed to listen to their wives, to honour them and give them due respect and to love them. What is wrong in that? //
Directed to listen to them but the ultimate decision is always that of the man without exception. How is that equal?
Directed to listen to them but the ultimate decision is always that of the man without exception. How is that equal?
The Israelite army perpetrated a huge genocide upon the people who already lived in "The Promised Land".
Despite being greatly outnumbered they were able to prevail. They took this as a sign that they had God on their side. In fact those they slaughtered were unaccustomed to battle.
The same justification of "God said" has been used by countless armies to take over lands that they wanted.
The Israelite army brutally hacked every man woman and child to death at close range with swords. Tens of thousands of people.
Then they took the gold, silver and jewels and put them in a box, (The Arc of the Covenant) which they exalted as a divine object. It Arc was kept in a house overnight and the owner of the house had to build a new home because no woman or child could ever be allowed to enter any place where the Arc had been. This is despite the man's wife was a Queen in her own right.
And fools try to claim that the Bible says women are treated equally. Hogwash.
The believers all have blood on their hands whether they take the Bible literally or not. Their support for this hideous tome implicates them in all atrocities committed in the name of God. No exceptions.
Despite being greatly outnumbered they were able to prevail. They took this as a sign that they had God on their side. In fact those they slaughtered were unaccustomed to battle.
The same justification of "God said" has been used by countless armies to take over lands that they wanted.
The Israelite army brutally hacked every man woman and child to death at close range with swords. Tens of thousands of people.
Then they took the gold, silver and jewels and put them in a box, (The Arc of the Covenant) which they exalted as a divine object. It Arc was kept in a house overnight and the owner of the house had to build a new home because no woman or child could ever be allowed to enter any place where the Arc had been. This is despite the man's wife was a Queen in her own right.
And fools try to claim that the Bible says women are treated equally. Hogwash.
The believers all have blood on their hands whether they take the Bible literally or not. Their support for this hideous tome implicates them in all atrocities committed in the name of God. No exceptions.
When Lemuel wrote Proverbs 31 he was extolling the role of women.
Women work hard, doing many different jobs at the same time. Can men say the same?
More often than not women are multi-taskers - men are not!
They are wives, mothers, nurses, teachers, cooks, cleaners, accountants, laundry works, etc. etc. All these jobs are carried out in the family.
Who is it that put women down? Men. They degrade women by their actions and by their attitude to women. In the Asian countries women have no place, even down to the fact they will kill or abandon their baby girls.
Women were protected under the Law. For example,
Exodus 21:22, 23 is in a part of the Mosaic law dealing with compensation for injuries. As you read next versesd, the basic principle was “eye for eye, tooth for tooth.” But what was to be done if a pregnant woman was injured?
There could be a number of outcomes of the injury. With regard to the woman, she might be hurt, even crippled, but not fatally. Or the damage might have caused her death. Then the developing child or children in her womb. If her pregnancy was quite advanced, the blow or shock might bring on early labour so that she prematurely delivered a live baby. Or, the hurt to the mother might cause an abortion, a destruction of the life developing in her womb. Plainly, what the Law said about damage to a pregnant woman had to cover a range of possibilities.
But at the end of the day, you read what you want to believe.
As for me, I have studied the Bible over a good many years and attend a Theocractic School weekly.
Women work hard, doing many different jobs at the same time. Can men say the same?
More often than not women are multi-taskers - men are not!
They are wives, mothers, nurses, teachers, cooks, cleaners, accountants, laundry works, etc. etc. All these jobs are carried out in the family.
Who is it that put women down? Men. They degrade women by their actions and by their attitude to women. In the Asian countries women have no place, even down to the fact they will kill or abandon their baby girls.
Women were protected under the Law. For example,
Exodus 21:22, 23 is in a part of the Mosaic law dealing with compensation for injuries. As you read next versesd, the basic principle was “eye for eye, tooth for tooth.” But what was to be done if a pregnant woman was injured?
There could be a number of outcomes of the injury. With regard to the woman, she might be hurt, even crippled, but not fatally. Or the damage might have caused her death. Then the developing child or children in her womb. If her pregnancy was quite advanced, the blow or shock might bring on early labour so that she prematurely delivered a live baby. Or, the hurt to the mother might cause an abortion, a destruction of the life developing in her womb. Plainly, what the Law said about damage to a pregnant woman had to cover a range of possibilities.
But at the end of the day, you read what you want to believe.
As for me, I have studied the Bible over a good many years and attend a Theocractic School weekly.
idiosyncrasy, //I have studied the Bible over a good many years and attend a Theocractic School weekly.//
You are not alone in having studied the bible over a good many years, but many of us do it and have done it without the hindrances and limitations imposed upon our conclusions by other men’s imaginary interpretations. We read what’s there – and offer no vindication for any of it.
You are not alone in having studied the bible over a good many years, but many of us do it and have done it without the hindrances and limitations imposed upon our conclusions by other men’s imaginary interpretations. We read what’s there – and offer no vindication for any of it.
We should stop treating "The Bible" as one work, and expect it to be consistent, It is at least four different types of work, in different places: historical record; moral tutor; interpretation; political manifesto. You will note that none of the passages quoted against anything come from the gospels - we have either the ancient tribal morality of the OT, or the spin-doctor salesmanship of St Paul (responsible, IMHO, for more trouble in the world than any other MAN). Christianity has - or should have - no need for either of those, as Christ's message was simply to love God and each other and show that in everything you do. Revolutionary as much today as 2000 years ago, and bloody hard.
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