Please Can You Settle This Pub Argument , Shop Lifting

[glazepta1]

I have a question which poses a problem , my friend says that if you receive a caution from the police ,but are not taken to court , but are fined by the store concerned , then you are not allowed to travel to America is he right ?

[boxtops]

There are plenty of threads about ESTAs and cautions and convictions if you do a search in the red box - but yes, I believe this could be right, that a caution/fine will count against you.

[sir.prize]

A caution is acceptable of guilt.

[jno]

if you've been arrested, even if not charged, then in theory you have to tell the US authorities, who might or might not then let you in. (They'll be more lenient if it was a long time ago.) But they don't have access to UK police records to check.

[sir.prize]

Correction: A caution is acceptance of guilt.

[Baldric]

How can a Store 'Fine' you??

[EDDIE51]

The store does not 'fine ' you. for minor shoplifting you may get just fixed penalty notice (FPN) this does not count as a caution or conviction so does not have to be declared. The shop will get a civil notice for recovery of its costs in bringing the action in addition to the FPN. The FPN is issued by the courts and not by the shop, the shop does not get the money from it the court does.
If however you are arrested and cautioned that should be declared, you need to be certain which of them ( caution or FPN) it was.

[jno]

Eddie, I'm pretty sure you have to tell the US authorities even if you've only been arrested - even if you were never charged or cautioned.

Why on earth don't the hundreds of threads about entering the USA show up as related threads at the bottom of this page?

[EDDIE51]

Jno if you are issued with an FPN you do not get arrested. You just agree to accept the FPN, so it does not need to be declared, it does not show on a CRB check either even on an enhanced one.

[EDDIE51]

The question actually says 'caution' so if you get a caution that does have to be declared. However most minor shoplifting is dealt with by a FPN.

[Buenchico]

Fact 1:
The US Immigration and Nationality Act places an automatic lifetime ban upon anyone who has ever committed an act of 'moral turpitude' (unless they were a minor at the time and it was a single act). It's irrelevant as to whether the person was actually convicted before a court.

Fact 2:
The definition of 'moral turpitude' (which is referred to elsewhere in US law) varies between US states but the one used by immigration officials is that given in Volume 9 of the US Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual, which includes all offences of theft.

Fact 3:
Accepting a caution is an admission of having carried out the act to which it relates.

Fact 4:
Anyone who has committed a criminal offence (even if they weren't convicted in court) is, according to the rules on the US Embassy website, ineligible to enter the USA under the Visa Waiver Program; they must apply for a visa. (It's a long-winded process, including getting hold of a copy of their 'police record' and attending an interview in London)

Fact 5:
Due to Fact 1, the US Embassy staff MUST (in the first instance) REFUSE to issue a visa.

Fact 6:
Anyone refused a visa on the grounds of Fact 1 has the right to ask that their request is then forwarded to Washington as an 'application for a waiver of permanent ineligibility'.

Fact 7:
IF that application is granted, the US Embassy staff can then reconsider the application and may grant a visa.

Fact 8:
The processes above take a VERY long time. The US Embassy website indicates that it takes at least 6 months for the 'administrative processing'. (The longest wait I've seen reported on this forum was one of 15 months. The application was then refused due to the applicant having committed 2 offences of driving without insurance).

[Buenchico]

Erratum:
Fact 5 should have read as follows:
"Due to Fact 1, the US Embassy staff MUST (in the first instance) REFUSE to issue a visa in all cases where 'moral turpitude' was involved"