Were The Nazis The Legal Authority In Germany During The 1930S And The War?

[sandyRoe]

If a government confiscates property and then disposes of it does the new owner have legal title? I'm thinking of the paintings which have been discovered in Munich.

[stewey]

I would say, sandy, that the road leading to an answer to that question is sewn with many moral, ethical, and legal landmines.

[Zeuhl]

^ lol

Lawyers form an orderly queue please...

[sandyRoe]

In Austria properties and businesses which were confiscated from Jewish families in the 1930s are still in the hands of the people who bought them from the state.

[Zacs-Master]

I think the key word there is 'bought'. There was no purchase involved re the paintings.

[Hypognosis]

Logically, they should all be handed over to Israel, Poland, France or other invaded countries, according to any clues about their provenance?

There almost certainly will be no surviving descendents of holocaust victims and the vast majority of 'claims' will likely be bogus/unproveable anyway.

Incredibly tricky area because the Allies looted as well.

[sandyRoe]

If they were confiscated by a legal regime are they not now the property of the state?

[Peter Pedant]

stewey may well say something anodyne, Sandy but that is a very good point.

Yes it was - and so were they within their rights at the time to confiscate ?
well yeah....

what about nowadays ? - definitely not - expropriation without compensation is contrary to International Law (yes there was then but it wasnt) and you can go after the money under the Rose Mary Arbitration, if not the objets themselves. Idi Amin and depriving the Ugandan Asians before expulsion fell foul of this...in 1973

So.... when did it change

Around about Potsdam when it was agreed between Truman and Stalin that there would be repatriation of people to pre war frontiers - The Great Betrayal of Yalta. There was not only repatriation of peoples (without their property -geddit ?) but also they sanctioned (some) appropriation decrees - see the Benes decrees in wiki - funnily enought I was reading them last night during the awful U571 film. The German and Hungarian Czechs were just booted out.

Also of interest is the Robert Lee arbitration 1906 over compensation for unlawful behaviour by a government in this case the Dutch republics during the Years of Anarchy (one of the pretexts for the War actually ) 1895-1900. Funnily enough if any of this is funny - Her Majesty's Govt in the Transvaal Colony and the Orange Free State had to pick up the bill for Om Paul Kruger's misdeeds as it was the legal successor.

Anyway settled in German domestic law - there has to be repossession to successors if they can be found. Arent the lawyers rubbing their hands ! !

There you are - I knew my year in international law in 1973 would come in useful somewhere. O I am the guy who rang up the F O and said they could go into the Libyan Embassy after Yvonne Fletcher's death in 1979 under the Doctrine of Hot Pursuit on the very day [afternoon I think] ! I am referred to every now and then in suitably anonymised form whenever it is discussed now but they didnt take my advice at the time.

[jno]

not all of them, sandyRoe; a lot of Klimts have been returned to their owners. I say owners - the heirs of the original owners, in fact.

I find myself wondering whether heirs do have a right to things the state confiscated from their parents.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/annemarie-oconnor/2012-the-year-of-gustav-k_b_1556962.html

[Peter Pedant]

The short anwer is some do and some dont depending on the rules.
( as ever in Law)

[humbersloop]

as stewey says, a messy business sandy

a lengthy article, but seems to lay out the current state of play

http://www.artnews.com/2013/09/11/the-restitution-struggle/

[ToraToraTora]

Yes, the incumbant regime can make the rules thus they are "legal" and can make anything they like "legal" as long as they do it with the law as it is. In Nazi germany the system was such that opposition was effectively abolished quite legally and as such everything that followed was legal in their system.