Selfish Parents ?

[sunny-dave]

I expect to get shot ... but here goes :

Widening the discussion from the current 'cruise holiday' thread - what part of "I may have to amend some parts of my lifestyle to fit in with the 20+ year project of raising a child" is so bloody difficult for people to understand.

People seem to assume that the world will take infinite pains to fit in around them and their mewling/puking/screaming offspring - rather than them recognising that they are the ones that should be adapting their behaviour and expectations to fit in with the constraints of having a child.

Babies love routine and hate change/disruption - yet the "I walked the Inca Trail whilst breast-feeding" brigade seem utterly unwilling to understand either the grief they are causing their baby or the collateral damage they are doing to other people's holiday.

Actually it's not just holidays - it's everywhere - pubs, restaurants, cinemas, etc, et bloody cetera.



grumpy and (before anyone else says it) childless dave xx

[Hypognosis]

@ummm
//Because I have children I can't have empathy for those that want them? You jumped to that conclusion, how? //

It's the flipside of not being able to empathise with how parents feel about their children if you don't have your own.

In short, it's difficult to empathise with someone's point of view if don't have the relevant set of life experiences in common.

[gness]

Sherr....I wanted children and was lucky enough to have two and inherit three....but I couldn't have spent my child rearing years in "child friendly" places. It just wasn't for me and I couldn't see why my kids couldn't simply muck in with the lives we already had.....

For us it worked brilliantly....the youngest is now thirty and they've all turned out okay...more than okay.......well one's a doctor but we'll brush over that.... ;-)

[ummmm]

I'm sorry but I disagree.

[sherrardk]

Hi Gness, we go to child friendly places so that the kids have a good time. I personally can't stand them because they are full of other people's children. (People assume I like all children because I have five, I don't, I dislike most other children.) Now that the things are five we have ventured to an Indian restaurant which was a complete success - the kids tried all sorts of new food (thing 1 being the most adventurous) so we will probably spread our wings a bit (there is only seven years between the eldest and youngest so it has been easy for all to go to child friendly places).

[B00]

"(People assume I like all children because I have five, I don't, I dislike most other children."

Hang on, weren't you a teacher Sherr?

[sherrardk]

Yep, didn't like them either - I did it for the holidays.

[bednobs]

it's odd, i'm not sure i know which "side" i agree with
i was childless (but wanting them) for nearly 11 years. I hated having to deal with other people's kids and had no idea how tricky it is to try and keep some sense of self when your world has been turned upside down by having children. Then i had a baby, and of course she is the most precious wonderful and the best thing i have ever done. However, when you are parent to a baby it IS difficult not to lose your sense of self, your relationship with your partner and be a "normal" person. One of the ways i did this was by going out (shock horror) where other people were, cafes, shops etc (double shock, double horror) Babies DO puke, Sugar and cry, and they can be loud, and energetic. You can't just stay away from everyone for 5 years! in the grand scheme of things, i think more people do have kids than don't, and in fact do understand

[gness]

Sherr...I think our first four are too old for there have been many child friendly places to take them to socialise and the youngest, the thirty year old daughter, wouldn't have thanked us for inflicting noisy children on her. I think she was born clutching a geologist's hammer and a guide to birds but it's held her in good stead and I am grateful for it.....never had to take her to McDonalds.....☺

[pixie373]

This is the problem in England. We treat children as a separate species and then wonder why they are antisocial. The world is not for adults-only. I haven't read the thread yet, so apologise if irrelevant or repeated.

[Hypognosis]

//We treat children as a separate species and then wonder why they are antisocial. //

I hope that doesn't get misinterpreted. I certainly do not think children are antisocial in the sense of bearing malice towards outsiders but they can behave in ways which outsiders may perceive as antisocial yet it's forgiveable because the impression is always that they've simply never been taught any other, better, way to behave.

Time was when this would be a matter for snobbery and telling the ill-disciplined 'rough' kids from the 'posh' or 'trying to be posh' types.

These days, criticizing other people's parenting skills is strictly taboo.

[gness]

Dave....you can win this one....I have sort of changed my mind.

Walk-in surgeries should employ a Child Catcher and any parent who lets a child run riot during the two hour wait ( Well they get bored so what can you do? was the excuse ) should have the children confiscated and not returned until I say so........☻

[sunny-dave]

You auditioning to play Baroness Bomburst, gness ?

:+)

[gness]

Today I would land the part, Dave....☻

[jno]

babies are super-flexible, they couldn't care less where they are, cruise ship or Inca Trail. jno jnr was taken to Tenerife when he was 6 weeks and was just fine; he continued to be hauled around the world for the next 15 years or so. He never ruined anyone else's holiday and nobody ruined his.

It's really only the British who hate children; parents would be better trying an Italian cruise ship than a UK one, and holidays in Europe or the USA are great.

[DaisyNonna]

gness, I remember having to take two small children with me for my hospital appointment. Made sure I had some books with me to read to them. One lovely gentleman sitting a few seats away asked if I could speak a little louder as he couldn't hear too clearly and was enjoying the story.
The children and I moved closer to him.

[gness]

Hey, Jno!!! Have a hug........I hauled mine all over too but then we spent lots of time in Ireland and lived in Canada for a time and children are very much included there so most learn from an early age how to behave for the situation and circumstances.....If you wait when do they begin to learn to mix well?

Mind you my experiences this week make me think many parents aren't too bothered about teaching social graces....hence my ad in the local paper for the Child Catcher....☺

[gness]

That's it, Daisy....in that situation bring books and quiet toys and instead of annoying people your children learn to interact properly with others like the old gentleman.x

[gness]

Hi, Dave...know you were just having a grump but this thread really got me thinking so I had a chat with the daughter about how she felt about her upbringing....did she feel it had been wrong to expect her to behave in a more grown up way in some situations and was it a pain being dragged around the world...well a little bit of it.

She has great memories and doesn't think she would have the confidence she has today if she hadn't been exposed to such diversity from an early age...then told me the following......

Her friends had a baby in May and took him to visit the grandparents in Cyprus in September.
Just after take off J was bobbing the baby up in the air when a pair of hands reached from behind and took him. In the row behind were three Greek Cypriot grannies...delighted to have a baby to fuss. Between them the grannies amused the baby for the whole flight and better still were on the same flight home.
Three happy grannies....two very relaxed parents and a lad who will grow up with confidence and has an early start on how to pull the ladies....

So..nothing much...just a nice tale I think, about how we can be with children...if we don't automatically make the sign of the cross in horror when we come across one.....Gx