Listener 4271. Extreme Behaviour By Nudd

[AHearer]

A couple of lucky guesses helped me through this, so that I only needed to cold-solve about half a dozen clues before I could start filling the grid-- but admittedly I was lucky with the clues I solved first. The nearly disconnected nature of the four quarters of the grid made life a bit harder. Good fun, though, so thank you Nudd

[perseverer]

It won't help terribly much to say that the trick is to solve the correct few clues that will let you have a chance of finding one of the quotations!

[EAChaplin]

It's often the case with a tough cold solve that I find none at all solved having tried a third or so of the clues. In these cases I usually go to the end and try to work backwards. This method helped me in this puzzle and led to the desirable situation described by perseverer above. Thanks Nudd for a very tough but fair challenge.

[Contrarian]

Very tough. After about 3 hours of cold-solving had only yielded about 10 answers, I was almost ready to throw in the towel. Then a couple more answers allowed me to guess one of the quotations, and the methods of entry.

I wonder what the ideal 'critical mass' of cold-solved clues is for this sort of puzzle? I recall a puzzle from earlier in the year - Lavatch's I think - where I had solved over two thirds of the clues before I could place any in the grid. The critical mass for this one was definitely less, but the fact that the clues were so difficult more than compensated for this.

[Scorpius]

In response to Contrarian, I seem to remember a comment somewhere (perhaps in the Listener notes for setters), that in a carte blanche puzzle, for example, it should be possible to start filling the grid after no more than 60% of clues have been solved.

[Contrarian]

Ah thanks Scorpius. Very interesting.

[sunny-dave]

If I'd had to do 60% of these clues I think I'd have shot myself.

I think I had about a dozen (working hard on a couple of groups of consecutives) when I got an inkling of the quotations. Fortunately several were also crossing lights when I was subsequently experimenting with entry methods.

[Mesnilpat]

I finally twigged how to enter the answers, as ever obvious once you know how. What a slog though, and I am not sure how to parse a few of the clues - but I have a complete grid and the two writers - that's enough for me.

[Philoctetes]

I'm surprised so many have found this a toughie. Fairly straightforward, well known quotes and not many options for changing the entries. Good solid middle ranking Listener

[youngoffender]

Well I found this one of the year's hardest, cold-solving about 25 of the clues and grappling with all the checking possibilities. Finally two methods of entry revealed themselves by elimination, in a moment of triumph, but the quotations were more hindrance than help - the methods of entry bear only the most tenuous relation to them. It didn't help that I spent hours trying to force the clues to give me a line by another 1,1,5...

[Cagey]

Well finally limped in. Like many found this really hard going, and probably the toughest I have attempted. Must adopt a better posture for solving - Slumped for so long on sofa with neck twisted is doing for my ageing back. Hopefully next weeks (this weeks now) will be better for it. Well done to those who sailed through.

[Nudd]

You should have tried setting it Cagey!
Well done to all who have completed the course and apologies if anyone did find it unfair. Of course there's no real scope for use of electronic solving / light-filling aids ... no particularly useful compiling aids either, hence my opening sentence.
I don't really get your problem with the entry methods as suggested by the quotations youngoffender. I thought they were far from tenuous - as seems to have been borne out by the number of people who raced away once they had the quotes. Mind you they had maybe not spent so much time first trying to find quotes from P.D.James / W.G.Grace / A.A.Milne / P.J.Proby / A.S.Byatt / J.E.Green / A.N Other etc ... interesting approach.
Thanks to all and so long until the next time.

[Cagey]

It was getting to the quotations that took the time (until Tuesday). Things did speed up a lot after that (until later on on Tuesday).
Maybe some form of formal physical warm up is required pre-set and pre-solve, followed by the necessary periods of concentrated concentration fractured by moments to move around, to rehydrate, to adjust pressure stockings and to take a fraction of aspirin. Maybe there should be a warning against solving these on long haul flights, and it should certainly be added to the list of deep vein thombosis and pulmonary embolism risk factors enquired about in A&E?
Thank you Nudd, once I had balanced solving it against the risks to my health, I still regarded it as a thoroughly enjoyable (and fair) puzzle.

[JackDeCrow]

I guess my overall impression of how hard a Listener was often has a lot to do with how long it took to get a few answers in the grid - so this one certainly scored as difficult there! Thanks Nudd.

I notice IainGrace has already mentioned 11a - is there not an extra extra letter in there?!

[olichant]

I think 11a is fine? A special thank you from me, Nudd - your puzzle last summer was the first Listener I managed to complete (well, apart from making a massive mistake - ahem), and it is what got me hooked.

[JackDeCrow]

Yes, so it is - apologies for casting nasturtiums on Nudd or the Editors! I was looking at the 3-letter abbreviation and Chambers didn't seem to support the existence of a 2-letter version. Should have thought of turning the letters around!!

[Geber]

I too struggled initially until I had solved enough clues to obtain the quotations. Thank you Nudd for a tough but fair challenge.

[iamamoose]

Really enjoyed this one, slow one for me, mostly solved by working backwards as I always seem to! ...(was momentarily surprised by the fact that one writer used both of the quotations while the other only used one!). Thanks Nudd!