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Us Sailor In One Of The Most Famous Vj Celebration Pictures Dies.
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Was there really not a mass assault on women? Were they not, for example, treated as if somehow they were a lower species? It might not have been a direct assault, but it's surely clear in the language, the attitudes and the media of the day that women were not treated as equal (in the sense of equal rights, equal opportunities etc.) Advertising slogans such as "you mean a woman can open it?!" and the like. In the meantime, this assumption that if a woman doesn't like being approached, she can make use of a hefty slap, seems to overlook the fact that the man shouldn't really have been making an unsolicited advance in the first place. Why not have the manners to ask, rather than to just assume she'd like it? Seems to me to be a bizarre attitude.
From what I can tell, the story behind this photo is less clear-cut than LG seems to suggest, but that's only based off wikipedia.
(If we're doing the whole "I was once pinched on the bottom by..." thing, so far the only time that's happened to me was recently, and it was a man doing the pinching...)
From what I can tell, the story behind this photo is less clear-cut than LG seems to suggest, but that's only based off wikipedia.
(If we're doing the whole "I was once pinched on the bottom by..." thing, so far the only time that's happened to me was recently, and it was a man doing the pinching...)
jim360
/// Was there really not a mass assault on women? Were they not, for example, treated as if somehow they were a lower species? ///
What era are you talking about jim Tudor times, Victorian times-----?
Yes some may have had their heads chopped off, and some ill treated by drunken men etc, but by the large women have mostly been treated with respect by the more self respecting male.
/// It might not have been a direct assault, but it's surely clear in the language, the attitudes and the media of the day that women were not treated as equal (in the sense of equal rights, equal opportunities etc.) ///
One could say the same regarding men, this is due to the difference between males and females, for instance were females expected to live their lives up to their necks in mud and bullets, no, but men have always been expected to do so.
/// Advertising slogans such as "you mean a woman can open it?!"
and the like. ///
That's just advertising, how many adverts do you see nowadays that belittle men?
/// Was there really not a mass assault on women? Were they not, for example, treated as if somehow they were a lower species? ///
What era are you talking about jim Tudor times, Victorian times-----?
Yes some may have had their heads chopped off, and some ill treated by drunken men etc, but by the large women have mostly been treated with respect by the more self respecting male.
/// It might not have been a direct assault, but it's surely clear in the language, the attitudes and the media of the day that women were not treated as equal (in the sense of equal rights, equal opportunities etc.) ///
One could say the same regarding men, this is due to the difference between males and females, for instance were females expected to live their lives up to their necks in mud and bullets, no, but men have always been expected to do so.
/// Advertising slogans such as "you mean a woman can open it?!"
and the like. ///
That's just advertising, how many adverts do you see nowadays that belittle men?
"
One could say the same regarding men, this is due to the difference between males and females, for instance were females expected to live their lives up to their necks in mud and bullets, no, but men have always been expected to do so.
"
That's probably a good point. Men who don't behave "like men should" have suffered in their own way too. I'd still argue, as would most people, that women have had it worse as a whole by some distance, mind.
"/// (If we're doing the whole "I was once pinched on the bottom by..." thing, so far the only time that's happened to me was recently, and it was a man doing the pinching...) ///
You must stop shopping in Brighton. :0)"
Thanks for the advice!! :)
This was in Leeds, I'd barely got out of the car and was on the way to meet a friend, staring at a nearby poster, then whammo. Whoever it was walked away quickly so I never did get to find out why he did it...
One could say the same regarding men, this is due to the difference between males and females, for instance were females expected to live their lives up to their necks in mud and bullets, no, but men have always been expected to do so.
"
That's probably a good point. Men who don't behave "like men should" have suffered in their own way too. I'd still argue, as would most people, that women have had it worse as a whole by some distance, mind.
"/// (If we're doing the whole "I was once pinched on the bottom by..." thing, so far the only time that's happened to me was recently, and it was a man doing the pinching...) ///
You must stop shopping in Brighton. :0)"
Thanks for the advice!! :)
This was in Leeds, I'd barely got out of the car and was on the way to meet a friend, staring at a nearby poster, then whammo. Whoever it was walked away quickly so I never did get to find out why he did it...
@AoG The usual hyperbole and false equivalence.
Nowhere did I suggest that there was a "mass assault" upon women "back in the day". That's your usual hyperbolic extrapolation of my comments. The point about a "slap on the cheek" was that it would have to happen after the fact, after the woman has been groped/assaulted/whatever.
I ask you again - is it acceptable, in your view, for women to be subjected to a kiss and a grope and an embrace, as in the picture we are talking about, if she did not give consent in the first place and found such attentions unwelcome ?
And none of this false equivalence of yours, trying to equate a "pinch on the bottom" with what happened in the picture we are talking about. There is a big difference between the 2. Oh, and none of this "its all right if women do it to men" nonsense.
@Jim - I am not suggesting it is clear cut at all. What I am saying is this; For a long time that picture was an unquestioned, iconic representation of the joy of all concerned at the end of the war. But more recent comments from the alleged woman in question ( and, to be clear, even the identities of the man and woman are not absolutely, categorically clear since several people laid claim to being part of the couple) suggest that the advances were both unsolicited and unwelcome.
And those are the specific set of circumstances I am talking about. In my view, the fact that society would now be much more sensitive to such actions means society has improved. Far better for women is to not be the subject of an unsolicited and unwelcome grab, rather than the whole thing just be dismissed with a "oh she should have slapped him" as AoG seems to be suggesting.
Nowhere did I suggest that there was a "mass assault" upon women "back in the day". That's your usual hyperbolic extrapolation of my comments. The point about a "slap on the cheek" was that it would have to happen after the fact, after the woman has been groped/assaulted/whatever.
I ask you again - is it acceptable, in your view, for women to be subjected to a kiss and a grope and an embrace, as in the picture we are talking about, if she did not give consent in the first place and found such attentions unwelcome ?
And none of this false equivalence of yours, trying to equate a "pinch on the bottom" with what happened in the picture we are talking about. There is a big difference between the 2. Oh, and none of this "its all right if women do it to men" nonsense.
@Jim - I am not suggesting it is clear cut at all. What I am saying is this; For a long time that picture was an unquestioned, iconic representation of the joy of all concerned at the end of the war. But more recent comments from the alleged woman in question ( and, to be clear, even the identities of the man and woman are not absolutely, categorically clear since several people laid claim to being part of the couple) suggest that the advances were both unsolicited and unwelcome.
And those are the specific set of circumstances I am talking about. In my view, the fact that society would now be much more sensitive to such actions means society has improved. Far better for women is to not be the subject of an unsolicited and unwelcome grab, rather than the whole thing just be dismissed with a "oh she should have slapped him" as AoG seems to be suggesting.
LazyGun
/// The point about a "slap on the cheek" was that it would have to happen after the fact, after the woman has been groped/assaulted/whatever. ///
Well that is blatantly obvious, one does not go around slapping people around the face when nothing untoward has taken place, the event always has to take place first before any reaction be it a slap across the face or an accusation of assault to the police.
/// I ask you again - is it acceptable, in your view, for women to be subjected to a kiss and a grope and an embrace, as in the picture we are talking about, if she did not give consent in the first place and found such attentions unwelcome ? ///
Since it is the picture we are talking about and not just grabbing a female and kissing her, then yes it is acceptable in the circumstances of the the time the photo was taken, it was a huge celebration and complete strangers linked arms kisses and hugged, nothing sexual involved.
Judging by your remarks I don't suppose you were around to join in the celebrations that took place, well I was and I can well remember the justification and most woman at that time would not have taken offence.
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/// The point about a "slap on the cheek" was that it would have to happen after the fact, after the woman has been groped/assaulted/whatever. ///
Well that is blatantly obvious, one does not go around slapping people around the face when nothing untoward has taken place, the event always has to take place first before any reaction be it a slap across the face or an accusation of assault to the police.
/// I ask you again - is it acceptable, in your view, for women to be subjected to a kiss and a grope and an embrace, as in the picture we are talking about, if she did not give consent in the first place and found such attentions unwelcome ? ///
Since it is the picture we are talking about and not just grabbing a female and kissing her, then yes it is acceptable in the circumstances of the the time the photo was taken, it was a huge celebration and complete strangers linked arms kisses and hugged, nothing sexual involved.
Judging by your remarks I don't suppose you were around to join in the celebrations that took place, well I was and I can well remember the justification and most woman at that time would not have taken offence.
http://
https:/
http://
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