Tony Martin

[flip-flop]

After the docu-drama last night I am convinced more than ever that it was a travesty that he was tried for murder.

Opinions?

[kipchik]

This is just my personal opinion but all i see is two scum who rob people cos its their god damn right as far as they're concerned,so they got shot,well they shouldn't have been there,serves them right,it was bound to be a matter of time,just happens that tony martin got there first.Give the man a medal,what if it'd been someone with kids in the house?These scums wouldn't have cared.Why should we?

[jake-the-peg]

It was dark, he didn't know which way he was facing?

So were saying that when Tony Martin shot he couldn't see what he was shooting at?

Didn't the police pick him up 6 months or so after release for having a boot full of dodgy number plates?

Wonder why he couldn't get a license for that gun - Oh yes that's right it was a pump-action gun a type that had been illeagal for 15 years.

Wonder what the view of Martin is in Hungerford?

However odious though Martin is you can't lump him together with the likes of Fred West - it reinforces the need for changes to the charge of murder which incidently the government are looking at now

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/22/nmurd22.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/07/22/ixhome.html

I'm looking forward to seeing Loosehead and flip-flop get behind a government initiative

[Aschenbach]

undercover you wrote a very sober post about the judicial system in contrast to loosehead's kill 'em all/ 'lefties stop defending this scum' which sounded idiotic as no one actually was.

[Loosehead]

Not with you Andy, you say you'd call the police and then in the next paragraph you explain why calling the police would be futile.

I promise you whatever you say in the cold light of day, if you were alone frightened and fear for you life in your own home you'd use any form of defence available.

OK it's not the best system to have house holders shooting burglars but when the Police have effectively given up protecting the public, the public will in the end have to defend themselves

So are you saying he should call the police and then hope the burglars don't do him too much damage while he waits the eternity for them to arrive. It's because of the absence of any protection TM felt he had to protect himself. Yes it was an illegal shot gun but when you feel unprotected by the law in your own home legality goes out of the window.

I just wish people will stop looking at this case like some sort of legal case study in a classroom, put yourself in the position of TM, take on board the back ground and be true to yourself and say would you really have acted differently?

[Loosehead]

So, no actual input to the discussion then aschenbach

[Englishbird]

What did the police do to protect Tony Martin after his numerous burglary's? Having your property broken into and your possessions stolen is incredibly emotionally taxing, no wonder the man was on edge!!

I do understand the (good) point that the police and CPS had no choice than to follow the law and that he had to be arrested and charged.

Do any of you live in areas plagued with pikey scum? I do and most of my friends, individual hardworking tradesmen have been done over on thousands of pounds worth of equipment... which i add is uninsurable ... by these people. They do not get caught by the police, they do not get charged and they do not go to prison.

Pure and simple, they should not have been there in the first place. And as for f*cking compensation because he was shot!!!! come on !!!!

I do not advocate people buying guns in the first place, and I do not advocate vigilante beatings or killings, but on the facts of this case, Tony Martin should not have been sent to prison.

People all over this country are being pushed to their limit because there is no control over the 'lower level' crime. There's only so much people can take before they snap.

[jake-the-peg]

....Detectives say the man grabbed his gun early Sunday morning after hearing a noise inside his home on Kentucky near Brackenridge in northeast Houston. He fired at what he believed to be a burglar, hitting the girl in the chest.

"The father, unfortunately believing that a burglar was inside the house, shot the child," said Ramon Cervantes, Jr. with the Houston Police Department.

See what happens if you shoot at things you can't see properly

[stevie_c2it]

Jake you forgot to stick your tongue out :p

In the interests of balance, here�s a similar quote from a different perspective

��..three weeks ago, my wife, Claudia, was brutally attacked when a burglar, who claimed to have a gun, broke into our home. She has not yet recovered from her ordeal.
She was once a tough, confident, outgoing lady -- but now she screams when she is startled by a footstep on the stairs, or the door handle turning unexpectedly. The awful memories of that night will, I suspect, be with her forever.
I, too, no longer like to be alone in my own home and find any sudden noise very frightening. That is a terrible thing if you were brought up -- as most of us were -- to believe that our home is our castle, where we can feel secure and relaxed�.

[bernardo]

I am convinced more than ever that it was a travesty that his murder conviction was reduced on appeal to manslaughter.

[geo0939]

I don't know if anyone remembers a case a few years ago concerning a young Scotsman who was working in Texas in the oil industry and was attacked in the street and severely injured. To escape his assailants, he ran to the nearest house and knocked on the door. The people inside, assuming they were being attacked shot and killed the young man, and were admonished. Is this really the kind of society that people like loosehead want in this country?

[geo0939]

stevie, do you really think that some criminals go out "on a job" saying "Tonight I will possibly be shot; ho hum"? You must know that they don't have this much foresight.

[stevie_c2it]

Didn't you ever see 'Porridge' then?

[Goodsoulette]

ha!! I thought the opposite, he seemed more guilty than I had imagined he would. I actually thought he was within his rights to do this but as the stories leak out I become less and less convinced. He doesnt appear to be remorseful for taking the life of a very young man. That would haunt me, no matter what situation I was in.

[flip-flop]

TM did us a favour - Barras was a scumbag who had repeatedly been arrested (33 times before he was 16!) and was without a shadow of a doubt heading for a lifetime of crime: TM has saved us hundreds of thousands of pounds by getting rid of this lowlife - Barras would never have contributed anything of use to society and would have been an evil rat-like scuzzy burglar preying on the weak in society and leavingv them afraid to live in their own houses, houses they have worked hard for.

This whole sorry mess boils down to one very very simple point: If they weren't committing a crime Barras would still be alive today. It really is that simple.

Loosehead is damn right - as far as I'm concerned, if somebody steps over my threshold uninvited they leave all of their rights at the door: the hand wringers babble on about calling the police and we can't take the law into our own hands yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah, which suggests they are naive enough to believe the police class burgalry as something other than a minor crime.

I've been burgled - it is not a minor crime, trust me on this one - the police came three days after I reported it and only seemed interested in giving a crime number for the insurance.

[zara 4]

Hallelujah!!!!Someone else on here speaking SENSE,100%,break-in,get shot,TOUGH!Police? JOKE!