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At Last Someone Talks Sense About The Railways...
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Ok many of you may find this surprising but the Railways is one of the things I think should be run by the state. Obviously it should be run professionally not as an overmanned shambles as in the latter days of British rail but the principle is sound. I also believe it is valid for the state to subsidise railways and also to go some way to restoring the vandalism of Beeching. I am a car lover of course but I think we have been forced too far into dependency on the car and I welcome enhancements to public transport. So well done if Labour are considering this, it is at least one thing that distinguishes the 2 main Parties.
Ok many of you may find this surprising but the Railways is one of the things I think should be run by the state. Obviously it should be run professionally not as an overmanned shambles as in the latter days of British rail but the principle is sound. I also believe it is valid for the state to subsidise railways and also to go some way to restoring the vandalism of Beeching. I am a car lover of course but I think we have been forced too far into dependency on the car and I welcome enhancements to public transport. So well done if Labour are considering this, it is at least one thing that distinguishes the 2 main Parties.
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TTT...I agree with you 100% ! But if I had posted this, there would probably have been loads of disparaging remarks like lefty, lentil-eating, etc.
I would like to go further. Bring as much back into public ownership as possible. We could start with the water industry for instance. That which falls from heaven should be so bl**dy expensive !
I would like to go further. Bring as much back into public ownership as possible. We could start with the water industry for instance. That which falls from heaven should be so bl**dy expensive !
The last Labour Government had to partially renationalise when Railtrack went bankrupt. The rail infrastructure is now run by Network Rail, which is a non-profit making company.
At the moment, Private Rail Companies apply to routes and the department of Teansport . The system is very complex and no one is happy with it.
There has got to be a better way.
At the moment, Private Rail Companies apply to routes and the department of Teansport . The system is very complex and no one is happy with it.
There has got to be a better way.
Like you Tora x 3, I didn't agree with nationalisation until having experienced privatisation. When it comes to public transport, it needs to be run super efficiently, very frequently and extremely cheaply to entice people out of their cars. However there is another thing in the equation and that is ever expanding population. You need the stock to be able to provide better than cattle trucks on the rail and more stock of buses to accommodate the people who could be using them.
// Network Rail is the trade name used by Network Rail Ltd and its various subsidiary companies. The most prominent subsidiary is Network Rail Infrastructure Ltd (previously Railtrack plc) which is the owner and operator of most of the rail infrastructure in Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales). It is not responsible for railway infrastructure in Northern Ireland or for the majority of track used by London Underground.
Network Rail Ltd is a statutory corporation created as a "not for dividend" private company limited by guarantee; Network Rail Infrastructure Ltd was reported in the 2010 annual company report as 100%-owned by Network Rail Ltd. Network Rail Ltd. has no shareholders thus is not owned by anyone but it is subject to various official requirements and directions. Currently the company applies its income to its own purposes (including some donations to charities etc.). The lack of a legal owner makes it liable (as happened with the pre-privatisation Trustee Savings Bank) to any future statute taking it into government ownership and its status as a statutory corporation enables the government to make changes to the company despite not being the legal owner.
Network Rail's main customers are the separate and mostly private-sector train operating companies (TOCs), responsible for passenger transport, and freight operating companies (FOCs), who provide train services on the infrastructure that the company owns and maintains. Network Rail does not itself run passenger or freight services. Ultimately both Network Rail and the train operating companies have the shared responsibility of delivering train services to the travelling public. //
All of which works well, much better than how RailTrack operated. The only bit that doesn't work is the lottery of awarding contracts, and the subsidies that we pay Branson and Stagecoach et al.
Network Rail Ltd is a statutory corporation created as a "not for dividend" private company limited by guarantee; Network Rail Infrastructure Ltd was reported in the 2010 annual company report as 100%-owned by Network Rail Ltd. Network Rail Ltd. has no shareholders thus is not owned by anyone but it is subject to various official requirements and directions. Currently the company applies its income to its own purposes (including some donations to charities etc.). The lack of a legal owner makes it liable (as happened with the pre-privatisation Trustee Savings Bank) to any future statute taking it into government ownership and its status as a statutory corporation enables the government to make changes to the company despite not being the legal owner.
Network Rail's main customers are the separate and mostly private-sector train operating companies (TOCs), responsible for passenger transport, and freight operating companies (FOCs), who provide train services on the infrastructure that the company owns and maintains. Network Rail does not itself run passenger or freight services. Ultimately both Network Rail and the train operating companies have the shared responsibility of delivering train services to the travelling public. //
All of which works well, much better than how RailTrack operated. The only bit that doesn't work is the lottery of awarding contracts, and the subsidies that we pay Branson and Stagecoach et al.
We handed the Private Companies running our rail routes £4billion (2012 figure).
// The bigger picture here is this - despite the fact that the railways were privatised nearly two decades ago, the industry is still propped up by bundles of public money.
Ministers handed over nearly £4bn last year. Successive governments have been working hard to get that figure down, mainly by charging more for tickets, hence the endless, above-inflation fare increases. But it is still more than 40% of the total cost of running the network.
They've worked out that train firms gave £1.17bn in premiums to the government last year, and got £3.88bn back in subsidies. Expect to see protests at many stations across Britain on Friday.
Franchising - giving private companies contracts to run train services - is clearly under a lot of pressure since the government messed up its sums on the West Coast deal. The unions are trying to capitalise on the chaos, to try to get the railways back where they want them, fully in public hands. //
// The bigger picture here is this - despite the fact that the railways were privatised nearly two decades ago, the industry is still propped up by bundles of public money.
Ministers handed over nearly £4bn last year. Successive governments have been working hard to get that figure down, mainly by charging more for tickets, hence the endless, above-inflation fare increases. But it is still more than 40% of the total cost of running the network.
They've worked out that train firms gave £1.17bn in premiums to the government last year, and got £3.88bn back in subsidies. Expect to see protests at many stations across Britain on Friday.
Franchising - giving private companies contracts to run train services - is clearly under a lot of pressure since the government messed up its sums on the West Coast deal. The unions are trying to capitalise on the chaos, to try to get the railways back where they want them, fully in public hands. //
aside from the subsidies handed to the rail companies, network rail itself receives a huge subsidy. to date, the west coast modernization scheme - which after nearly 14 years is still on-going and causing regular disruption (with another unplanned half-day closure at Watford after yesterday's work overran) - has cost £8bn, and the extra capacity it was designed to bring has already gone. the government now tell us the way to go is HS2 with a forecast price tag of several times the cost of the west coast.
whereas, to build a second M1 from scratch would cost under a third of that amount at £2.5bn, and it would provide a great deal more capacity.
maybe the parties vying for your vote next year need to consider whether keeping the railways at all represents value for the taxpayer's pound.
whereas, to build a second M1 from scratch would cost under a third of that amount at £2.5bn, and it would provide a great deal more capacity.
maybe the parties vying for your vote next year need to consider whether keeping the railways at all represents value for the taxpayer's pound.
// to build a second M1 from scratch would cost under a third of that amount at £2.5bn //
I am doubting that figure.
The 27miles of the the M6 toll road cost £900million.
The M1 is 7 times longer than that.
7 x £900million is £6.3billion.
But that was constructed 15 years ago. It would probably cost 2 or 3 times that today.
I am doubting that figure.
The 27miles of the the M6 toll road cost £900million.
The M1 is 7 times longer than that.
7 x £900million is £6.3billion.
But that was constructed 15 years ago. It would probably cost 2 or 3 times that today.
// Perhaps we should let the French or the Germans buy them up, they run their railways much better than we do, and after all they have bought up most other things. //
Too late, the French, Germans, Italian and Dutch all operate our trains already. Arriva, Govia, Keolis and Abellio are all here already and not making that great a job of it.
Too late, the French, Germans, Italian and Dutch all operate our trains already. Arriva, Govia, Keolis and Abellio are all here already and not making that great a job of it.
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