ChatterBank3 mins ago
David Cameron's Eu Referendum Pledge.
Why are you voting UKiP when the Conservative's are promising you a referendum?
Iain Duncan Smith says it is the BBC's fault...
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The BBC is systematically “downgrading” David Cameron’s pledge to hold a referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union, leaving most voters ignorant of the Prime Minister’s radical plans, Iain Duncan Smith has said.
In an interview with The Telegraph, the Cabinet minister suggested the BBC was failing to provide viewers and listeners with a genuine public service because of its coverage of politics.
Audiences relied on the BBC to keep them informed about political debate but were being let down, the Work and Pensions Secretary said.
Mr Duncan Smith accepted that the Conservatives face a significant challenge to ensure voters understand their policy on reforming Britain’s relations with the European Union over the next 12 months. //
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The Conservatives went into the last election promising a referendum and we didn't get one. Is it any wonder that the public do not believe he can renegotiate the terms of our membership, or that he will be able to offer a referendum?
Is IDS stupid, or does he just think the public are stupid?
Iain Duncan Smith says it is the BBC's fault...
//
The BBC is systematically “downgrading” David Cameron’s pledge to hold a referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union, leaving most voters ignorant of the Prime Minister’s radical plans, Iain Duncan Smith has said.
In an interview with The Telegraph, the Cabinet minister suggested the BBC was failing to provide viewers and listeners with a genuine public service because of its coverage of politics.
Audiences relied on the BBC to keep them informed about political debate but were being let down, the Work and Pensions Secretary said.
Mr Duncan Smith accepted that the Conservatives face a significant challenge to ensure voters understand their policy on reforming Britain’s relations with the European Union over the next 12 months. //
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The Conservatives went into the last election promising a referendum and we didn't get one. Is it any wonder that the public do not believe he can renegotiate the terms of our membership, or that he will be able to offer a referendum?
Is IDS stupid, or does he just think the public are stupid?
Answers
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Janbee: "Most Brits want 100% out of the EU." I'm not sure this is true. I think that polls are suggesting that, perhaps surprisingly
09:36 Sun 01st Jun 2014
"Why are you voting UKiP when the Conservative's [sic] are promising you a referendum?"
I'm not.
"Mr Duncan Smith accepted that the Conservatives face a significant challenge to ensure voters understand their policy on reforming Britain’s relations with the European Union over the next 12 months."
Britain cannot reform its relations with the European Union. It can remain in the union and bow to Brussels or leave and face the economic consequences. There is no halfway house.
"Is IDS stupid, or does he just think the public are stupid?"
No and yes. And he's almost certainly right.
I'm not.
"Mr Duncan Smith accepted that the Conservatives face a significant challenge to ensure voters understand their policy on reforming Britain’s relations with the European Union over the next 12 months."
Britain cannot reform its relations with the European Union. It can remain in the union and bow to Brussels or leave and face the economic consequences. There is no halfway house.
"Is IDS stupid, or does he just think the public are stupid?"
No and yes. And he's almost certainly right.
Beware the ID(e)S of March and every other month !! What Cammy promises and pledges and what Cammy delivers are two very dfferent things. If Cammy were serious about a referendum, he would do it BEFORE May 2015. He is Mr Procrastinator. Most Brits want 100% out of the EU. Cammy, Millie and that little boy Nicky(remember him?) will NEVER let us leave - NEVER!!
Have to agree with Jeffa. IDS isn't stupid, as no politicians are. And now that the UK has a committed relationship with the EU to withdraw would be economic suicide. But we really should have entered the Euro. We're neither in or out of the EU. Typically UK politics sits on the fence once again not prepared to make bold decisions for fear of upsetting the fragile and fickle electorate.
And as for the BBC - its failed to provide viewers and listeners with a public service for years due to censorship and "dumbed down" news reporting. But who controls the BBC
And as for the BBC - its failed to provide viewers and listeners with a public service for years due to censorship and "dumbed down" news reporting. But who controls the BBC
// The BBC is systematically “downgrading” David Cameron’s pledge to hold a referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union, leaving most voters ignorant of the Prime Minister’s radical plans, Iain Duncan Smith has said. //
The BBC isn't the only news medium and loads people don't watch it anyway, so even if it were true, you could hardly blame the BBC for the public's ignorance on the matter.
All the parties seem to think that BBC exists to promote their policies in a favourable light, and accuse them of bias when they don't.
The fact is that politicians promises have proven worthless so many times, no-one believes a word any of them say any more, so it wouldn't matter how much publicity his referendum pledge got.
The BBC isn't the only news medium and loads people don't watch it anyway, so even if it were true, you could hardly blame the BBC for the public's ignorance on the matter.
All the parties seem to think that BBC exists to promote their policies in a favourable light, and accuse them of bias when they don't.
The fact is that politicians promises have proven worthless so many times, no-one believes a word any of them say any more, so it wouldn't matter how much publicity his referendum pledge got.
Given that IDS has never handled anything successfully, from his illustrious military career onwards, he has certainly shown himself to be very far from bright. Even George Osborne has claimed that he is (quote) “not clever enough” and that’s according to The Telegraph!
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IDS lost it years ago. Promises from labour and tories are simply hot air, they have both now got a very real problem.
UKIP may not be everybodies cup of tea bu there is no doubt they are shaking the two big parties and that has to be good.
The worm is turning across the corrupt EU.
BTW it would not be economic suicide to leave a union that hols you back charges a fortune for the priviledge and to which you import more than you export.
UKIP may not be everybodies cup of tea bu there is no doubt they are shaking the two big parties and that has to be good.
The worm is turning across the corrupt EU.
BTW it would not be economic suicide to leave a union that hols you back charges a fortune for the priviledge and to which you import more than you export.
The Conservatives' message IS being received by the public. It is just that they do not believe it. They have consistantly broken promise after promise on Europe to the point where people who have previously supported them are turning to other parties.
If IDS does not yet know that if you do not deliver something you have promised, the public will abandon you. He is indeed stupid, if he thinks the failure of the public to believe the Conservative's policy on a referendum is the BBC fault.
Apparently UKiP are targetting Cabinet Ministers' Constituencies for more intense electioneering. I suppose if the man who has made a cock up of reforming the benefits system loses to UKiP he will ve bleating that that is the BBC's fault too.
If IDS does not yet know that if you do not deliver something you have promised, the public will abandon you. He is indeed stupid, if he thinks the failure of the public to believe the Conservative's policy on a referendum is the BBC fault.
Apparently UKiP are targetting Cabinet Ministers' Constituencies for more intense electioneering. I suppose if the man who has made a cock up of reforming the benefits system loses to UKiP he will ve bleating that that is the BBC's fault too.
Janbee: "Most Brits want 100% out of the EU."
I'm not sure this is true. I think that polls are suggesting that, perhaps surprisingly, at the same time as a rise in UKIP support there has also been an increasing number of people in favour of staying in the EU. Perhaps a majority. This can perhaps be explained best by the point that at the recent Elections, UKIP attracted not quite 10% of the overall share of the electorate once you adjust for people who could have voted but didn't turn out. Then again, neither did any other party. But for UKIP in particular this matters because it seemed as if they had arrived on a wave of support and fresh politics and anti-mainstream mood, and so you would probably expect that most of the people who would have voted UKIP actually turned up to vote. Perhaps we ought to be careful of reading too much, then, into their 30% share of the vote. Turnout was low enough such that it can be risky projecting it into the public's real feelings, and in large part it seemed that UKIP was just picking up the protest vote against politics in general.
"If Cammy were serious about a referendum, he would do it BEFORE May 2015. He is Mr Procrastinator."
This is just totally unfeasible. There is already a major referendum in the next year that could have massive consequences for the future of the UK. Having another one alongside it with equally huge consequences is just never going to happen. If nothing else, consider that Scotland (a) could leave the UK, and (b) traditionally has a greater support for EU membership. There would be uproar if the referendum result was for staying in the EU at the same time that Scotland chose to leave the UK. It's asking for trouble to have two such major issues being debated at the same time and there is no way it can or even should happen.
I'm not sure this is true. I think that polls are suggesting that, perhaps surprisingly, at the same time as a rise in UKIP support there has also been an increasing number of people in favour of staying in the EU. Perhaps a majority. This can perhaps be explained best by the point that at the recent Elections, UKIP attracted not quite 10% of the overall share of the electorate once you adjust for people who could have voted but didn't turn out. Then again, neither did any other party. But for UKIP in particular this matters because it seemed as if they had arrived on a wave of support and fresh politics and anti-mainstream mood, and so you would probably expect that most of the people who would have voted UKIP actually turned up to vote. Perhaps we ought to be careful of reading too much, then, into their 30% share of the vote. Turnout was low enough such that it can be risky projecting it into the public's real feelings, and in large part it seemed that UKIP was just picking up the protest vote against politics in general.
"If Cammy were serious about a referendum, he would do it BEFORE May 2015. He is Mr Procrastinator."
This is just totally unfeasible. There is already a major referendum in the next year that could have massive consequences for the future of the UK. Having another one alongside it with equally huge consequences is just never going to happen. If nothing else, consider that Scotland (a) could leave the UK, and (b) traditionally has a greater support for EU membership. There would be uproar if the referendum result was for staying in the EU at the same time that Scotland chose to leave the UK. It's asking for trouble to have two such major issues being debated at the same time and there is no way it can or even should happen.
I found a poll commissioned by Sky News which found that 51% of those polled wanted to leave compared to 49% wanting to stay in - but what it did show is the massive lack of understanding about Europe and also how some people's opinion when polled could be changed if UK's position was re-negotiated - e.g. 61% of those saying out would reconsider if certain key policies were renegotiated and 80% of those saying in would consider changing if certain key aspects of integration were forced on UK.
So I don't think you can say most people want 100% - the simple yes/no question is split almost 50/50 according to that poll, and within that significant numbers would change opinion with more/less integration.
So I don't think you can say most people want 100% - the simple yes/no question is split almost 50/50 according to that poll, and within that significant numbers would change opinion with more/less integration.
"But we really should have entered the Euro. "
Eh? What? Shome Mishtake, shurely, baboonboy.
As a result of the financial crisis the £ Sterling was devalued against the euro by well over 30% (from about 1.48 to a little over 1.0 euros to the pound) in less than two years. A similar devaluation took place against the US dollar, with the pound falling from around $2 to the pound to a low of less than $1.4. Only in recent months, as the UK's economy has picked up a little, have these rates started to recover slowly though they are still way below the pre-crisis levels. At the same time the UK reduced its interest rate to a record low of 0.5% where it remains today. These are the traditional tools used by countries when they face financial crises. These options were not available to countries using the single currency as they were tied to rates set by the European Central Bank. The euro exchange rates and European interest rates could not be adjusted to suit individual nations and the "one size for all" policy actually suited nobody except Germany. Hence many eurozone countries, especially the PIIGS nations suffered financial meltdown.
Had the UK adopted the single currency we would have suffered a similar fate. The likliehood is we would have needed a bail out from the ECB and would have been forced to comply with the type of policies that Greece, Spain and Portugal (among others) are having forced upon them by the EU. And you think we should have joined the euro !!!!! If we can be thankful to Gordon Brown for one thing (and it's the only thing I can think of) it is that he kept us out of that wretched currency union. In 50 years time, long after the euro has been abandoned and forgotten, economists and historians will look back and chuckle, wondering what on earth possessed seemingly sane politicians to agree to such a ridiculous scheme.
Mr Cameron knows that the key issues that the UK electorate has with our relationship with the EU will never be "renegotiated". The most important among these (and there are many) is immigration. The other 27 states are never all going to agree to any change in the principle of the free movement of people which the EU sees as its crowning achievement (closely followed at number two by that grandest of follies, the single currency). I don't criticise the others; they joined under a given set of rules and it is unfair to expect them to agree to a fundamental change simply to suit the UK. All the PM hopes that offering such renegotiations will achieve is to buy him another term in No 10. However, many people in the UK are profoundly unhappy with the way the EU has developed and the only way to overcome these issues is for the UK to withdraw from the EU forthwith. If we fall for Mr Cameron's spivvery we deserve all we get.
Eh? What? Shome Mishtake, shurely, baboonboy.
As a result of the financial crisis the £ Sterling was devalued against the euro by well over 30% (from about 1.48 to a little over 1.0 euros to the pound) in less than two years. A similar devaluation took place against the US dollar, with the pound falling from around $2 to the pound to a low of less than $1.4. Only in recent months, as the UK's economy has picked up a little, have these rates started to recover slowly though they are still way below the pre-crisis levels. At the same time the UK reduced its interest rate to a record low of 0.5% where it remains today. These are the traditional tools used by countries when they face financial crises. These options were not available to countries using the single currency as they were tied to rates set by the European Central Bank. The euro exchange rates and European interest rates could not be adjusted to suit individual nations and the "one size for all" policy actually suited nobody except Germany. Hence many eurozone countries, especially the PIIGS nations suffered financial meltdown.
Had the UK adopted the single currency we would have suffered a similar fate. The likliehood is we would have needed a bail out from the ECB and would have been forced to comply with the type of policies that Greece, Spain and Portugal (among others) are having forced upon them by the EU. And you think we should have joined the euro !!!!! If we can be thankful to Gordon Brown for one thing (and it's the only thing I can think of) it is that he kept us out of that wretched currency union. In 50 years time, long after the euro has been abandoned and forgotten, economists and historians will look back and chuckle, wondering what on earth possessed seemingly sane politicians to agree to such a ridiculous scheme.
Mr Cameron knows that the key issues that the UK electorate has with our relationship with the EU will never be "renegotiated". The most important among these (and there are many) is immigration. The other 27 states are never all going to agree to any change in the principle of the free movement of people which the EU sees as its crowning achievement (closely followed at number two by that grandest of follies, the single currency). I don't criticise the others; they joined under a given set of rules and it is unfair to expect them to agree to a fundamental change simply to suit the UK. All the PM hopes that offering such renegotiations will achieve is to buy him another term in No 10. However, many people in the UK are profoundly unhappy with the way the EU has developed and the only way to overcome these issues is for the UK to withdraw from the EU forthwith. If we fall for Mr Cameron's spivvery we deserve all we get.
Jim is right: the polls suggest a rise in support for the EU since the rise of UKIP. Which suggests perhaps that the silent majority are in fact the ones who don't have any time for Mr Farage. More people may have oted for his party than any other at the Euro election but it was still only 30-odd per cent of the 34% who voted. And many of those it appears were people who had never voted before - which if true I would say is bad news for the party as it's more regular voters at more important elections they need to win over
Since when did Ian Duncan Smith assume that he has the right to tell people how to vote?
People voted UKIP because they are sick of empty promises from toffee nosed career politicians.
And they shouldn't make the mistake (again) of assuming that Nigel Farage is going to go away!
The right thing to do.......has worn very, very, very thin.
People voted UKIP because they are sick of empty promises from toffee nosed career politicians.
And they shouldn't make the mistake (again) of assuming that Nigel Farage is going to go away!
The right thing to do.......has worn very, very, very thin.
It doesn't matter what what Cameron promises for 2017 if re-elected . He will be in No 10. and no doubt making all the excuses why he can't achieve any credible renegotiation. With 27 states largely voting against us little can be done. He bottled out of giving us a referendum in 2009 using the excuse the Lisbon treaty had been ratified. In 2017 it will be another hand wringing excuse, why, with or without a referendum he can't achieve much. and he will be right, the majority of the EU members will not give us what we want. Why would they ? They are net recipients and we are a major paymaster.
"And yes we should have entered the Euro and we will do one day"
Leaving aside, ichkeria, the fact that it is highly likely that the euro (at least in its current form) will cease to exist in a few years time and is only surviving now because of political vanity, do you really think it is in the UK's interest to adopt a currency over which it has no control? Do you think that the UK would have got through the financial crisis as well as it has if it had been part of the single currency (i.e. that it could not have devalued and controlled its interest rates)? Do you have any comments on the points I made in may earlier post regarding interest rates and exchange rates? Or is your point simply that "we should have joined because lots of other nations did"? I'd be really interested in your logic because as far as I (and lots of other commentators far better qualified that I am) can see a currency union without economic, fiscal and political union (which is what the euro is) is just about as daft as it gets.
Leaving aside, ichkeria, the fact that it is highly likely that the euro (at least in its current form) will cease to exist in a few years time and is only surviving now because of political vanity, do you really think it is in the UK's interest to adopt a currency over which it has no control? Do you think that the UK would have got through the financial crisis as well as it has if it had been part of the single currency (i.e. that it could not have devalued and controlled its interest rates)? Do you have any comments on the points I made in may earlier post regarding interest rates and exchange rates? Or is your point simply that "we should have joined because lots of other nations did"? I'd be really interested in your logic because as far as I (and lots of other commentators far better qualified that I am) can see a currency union without economic, fiscal and political union (which is what the euro is) is just about as daft as it gets.
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