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Ye I think you got it, it is very old but in very good condition from the top to the sewer no rust at all. The soil pipe coming into the bath room has a good 12inches plus the big flange so at a gess at the mo will need to cut back at least half. thanks for the link and an idea of what I will need, as a jack of all and master of none, you sometimes can't picture what you need when you are not doing this kind of work every day, even if you have a fair idea of how to go about it. Heres a giggle for ya a few years back someone asked me to take out a cast bath I struggled like hell to get it out of a confine space on a sweltering hot day, on the night time in the pub a bloke overheard me telling someone and turned round a said why didn't you just hit it with a lump hammer. ok I felt a right dick head, they say you live and learn:)