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Solicitor's Code Of Practice
Hi,
Is there an obligation on a solicitor to advise a client if an excessive bill is being run up ?
About 6 months ago the solicitor quoted a fixed fee to deal with granting probate. It's not completed yet but now they've presented 2 interim bills, one for the original fixed fee, the other for 3 times that same amount. They've eventually provided an itemised list for the 2nd bill, 57 chargeable items. Many of these charges are for dealing with DWP, bank & insurance, surely covered in the probate & therefore included in the fixed fee ?
Another solicitor, dealing with another issue (the will's being contested) has said he'll look into it but that will inevitably result in another bill.
Can the 1st solicitors really charge 4 times the original fixed fee price, & shouldn't the client have been warned ? He had no idea !
Is there an obligation on a solicitor to advise a client if an excessive bill is being run up ?
About 6 months ago the solicitor quoted a fixed fee to deal with granting probate. It's not completed yet but now they've presented 2 interim bills, one for the original fixed fee, the other for 3 times that same amount. They've eventually provided an itemised list for the 2nd bill, 57 chargeable items. Many of these charges are for dealing with DWP, bank & insurance, surely covered in the probate & therefore included in the fixed fee ?
Another solicitor, dealing with another issue (the will's being contested) has said he'll look into it but that will inevitably result in another bill.
Can the 1st solicitors really charge 4 times the original fixed fee price, & shouldn't the client have been warned ? He had no idea !
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I don't know the answer to the bit about advising prior to spending more/excessive time, but I will be staggered if the engagement document has the word quote anywhere on it. Every solicitor I've ever had to deal with uses the term estimate. Furthermore there will then be a statement that caveats what assumptions or work package is covered for that estimate.
The estimate probably covers the basic "prepare the necessary forms and deal with taking the documentation through the Probate Registry".
When I've acted as an executor, that is the easy bit. Getting the base figures to go on the forms, aka dealing with banks, insurers, HMRC, pension providers is where the donkey work is, and hence the main consumer of time.
Caveat emptor, I'm afraid.
And why is it solicitors do this adding sums work anyway? - there's nothing faintly legal about it. The legal work is in drawing up the will. You don't find accountants and bookkeepers doing legal work.
The estimate probably covers the basic "prepare the necessary forms and deal with taking the documentation through the Probate Registry".
When I've acted as an executor, that is the easy bit. Getting the base figures to go on the forms, aka dealing with banks, insurers, HMRC, pension providers is where the donkey work is, and hence the main consumer of time.
Caveat emptor, I'm afraid.
And why is it solicitors do this adding sums work anyway? - there's nothing faintly legal about it. The legal work is in drawing up the will. You don't find accountants and bookkeepers doing legal work.
It was a fixed fee for granting probate, no estimates. Most of the work had already been done by the executors anyway so there was little for the solicitors to actually do. Where they have been involved, f’rinstance with DWP, they messed up by paying a sum owed even though the executors had already paid it & had told them so. The solicitor has now asked the executors do they want the refund to be paid to the practice. I’ve said don’t – no doubt that’ll be another “chargeable item” to add to the bill !
The extra fees have been incurred by phone calls & e-mails relating in part to querying why will documents that same practice destroyed though the deceased was actually still living. Also, the will is being contested and the executors wanted a letter written to the “contestee” advising he wasn’t to go to the property (everyone had agreed he had no right to do so anyway) and for his belongings to be removed. The solicitor refused to write it, ultimately passing it to her manager who then spoke to the executors for an hour, charging, unbeknowns to them, over £300 for that conversation alone ! And they’re charging, on average, £20+ for “conferring with a colleague” !
My point is, they knew a bill was mounting, the executors were totally oblivious they would have to pay 1p over the fixed fee, and now they’ve had a bill for FOUR times the original fixed bill, nearly £5000 - and still rising.
The extra fees have been incurred by phone calls & e-mails relating in part to querying why will documents that same practice destroyed though the deceased was actually still living. Also, the will is being contested and the executors wanted a letter written to the “contestee” advising he wasn’t to go to the property (everyone had agreed he had no right to do so anyway) and for his belongings to be removed. The solicitor refused to write it, ultimately passing it to her manager who then spoke to the executors for an hour, charging, unbeknowns to them, over £300 for that conversation alone ! And they’re charging, on average, £20+ for “conferring with a colleague” !
My point is, they knew a bill was mounting, the executors were totally oblivious they would have to pay 1p over the fixed fee, and now they’ve had a bill for FOUR times the original fixed bill, nearly £5000 - and still rising.
They haven't actually done anything more than grant probate, woofgang.
They destroyed will notes that are needed by the solicitors representing the executors & the "contestee". They refused to send the letter the executor instructed them to send. This extra bill is basically for explaining the above by way of "conferring with colleagues", time spent looking for the will notes although they knew they were destroyed 7yrs after the will was written, phone calls to & from, and letters & e-mails regarding the above. That's it.
They destroyed will notes that are needed by the solicitors representing the executors & the "contestee". They refused to send the letter the executor instructed them to send. This extra bill is basically for explaining the above by way of "conferring with colleagues", time spent looking for the will notes although they knew they were destroyed 7yrs after the will was written, phone calls to & from, and letters & e-mails regarding the above. That's it.
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