International arms dealing/Charles Taylor.

[nedflanders]

After watching this film I did not realise how guilty we (UK) were of hypocrasy.

***Spoiler warning if you read the link***

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_war

It made me ashamed to be Brittish and realise that our government is just as guilty as some of the people that commit war crimes. The film is based upon a liberian president assumed to be Charles Taylor who has recently been re-arrested for genocide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taylor

There is also a very good amnesty international advert at the start of the dvd. So my question is, how much is the arms trade worth to the UK per annum and why do we not protest about this as much as the Iraq war?

[nedflanders]

Apologies I missed this link.....

http://www.controlarms.org/teleshop/

[johnlambert]

nedflanders if you are ashamed to be British, which nationality would you like to be? this is a movie for heavens sake, it's only purpose is to make money. So it's based on a true story, based on does not mean that it is 100% accurate, ie braveheart (the real braveheart was king Robert the Bruce) or that dreadful trashy one about how the Yanks captured the german enigma machine, (it was acctualy the Royal Navy).

Take it with a pinch of salt man

[Loosehead]

Arms are tools, guns don't kill people, people kill people, the guns are the tools. B&Q sell tools many of which could be used to murder, does that mean it's B&Q's fault every time some get's killed with and axe?

[nedflanders]

come on guys you can't be serious! Do B&Q export axes to sierra leone so "freedom fighters" can hatchet women and children to death en masse?

johnlambert - Yes it is a movie but it has also been directed with a purpose, to expose what the arms trade/governments do. wtf has braveheart and U-571 got to do with this subject. Have you even seen the movie?

[Loosehead]

If Sierra Leone wanted to import axes then I'm sure one of many of the DIY stores would be happy to accomodate.

[nedflanders]

Loosehead - Maybe Mr Block or Mr Quayle have more morality than Mr Blair or Mr Bush. Ironically there is probably laws restricting the export/sale of axes/knifes, unlike firearms.

[WaldoMcFroog]

"Arms are tools, guns don't kill people, people kill people, the guns are the tools. B&Q sell tools many of which could be used to murder, does that mean it's B&Q's fault every time some get's killed with and axe?"

That's a terrible analogy; a tool in B&Q is not sold on the basis that it's going to be used to kill someone. I'm reasonably certain that you can't argue, 'Oh well, we did sell them the bombs, but it's not our fault, they said they were going to make a rockery...'

[nedflanders]

I always get scared when I agree with Waldo about anything.

The fact is, our goverments are partially responsible for the genocide/atrocities that happen in Africa that they are so quick to denounce and call barbaric.

[ll_billym]

Great one Waldo lol.

My take on it is the old "If they don't buy it from us they will get it from someone else." Yes I know all the flower power reasons why it is wrong to think this way but face the facts, this statement is absolutely true. These countries are going to get guns and bombs anyway so they may as well get them in such a way that my country makes money out of it.

[jake-the-peg]

There was a dispatches program (not fiction) on channel 4 the other night.

http://www.newstatesman.com/200604030014

A group of school children in Oxfordshire and in Ireland were able to pretent to be arms brokers and buy and sell the most appalling weapons and torture implements entirely legally.

There is no restriction on unlicensed British Citizens brokering deals like this from abroad, and no restrictions on certain torture devices if they are not explicitly named in legislation.

Brokerring torture devices is pretty disgraceful whatever way you look at it

[foxy.fagin]

I saw the film and I thought it excellent but harrowing. I suggested it to many people but I don't know anyone who went along (preferring artworks like "Brokeback Mountain" and "Basic Instinct 2").

Yes, I came out shocked and believe me, I'm pretty open to anything and I thought I was a fully fledged cynic - result of the film? I had heard, had read, was aware of greedy profit, sheer inhumane, uncaring contracts, etc.etc. I didn't feel ashamed to be British, I felt ashamed to be part of society.

[foxy.fagin]

Thinking so please excuse me, nedflanders, but Dom Tuk, have you seen it? Do! And yesterday saw an excellent film, Italian "Romanzo Criminale" by Michele Placido. You should enjoy thet.

[foxy.fagin]

Excuse me, nedflanders, but that goes for you too.

[PhilBy]

Arms dealing.... isn't that how Mark Thatcher earns his millions? Talking of Thatcher, wasn't it nice of his dear mother to speak up for that poor General Pinochet when he was under arrest in this country.......... so sincere of her wouldn't you say :-)