ChatterBank0 min ago
Ukip Is Beating Labour To The White Working Class Vote
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Does not look good for the party that is suppose to support the working classes.
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Does not look good for the party that is suppose to support the working classes.
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The Labour Party is no more the party to represent the working class than the Tories are. It is run by an out-of-touch metropolitan elite that has no more idea of the problems and concerns facing working people than has a multi-millionaire. This was adequately demonstrated by "Thornberry-gate".
They send their children either to private schools or highly selective State schools, they live in areas largely unaffected by mass immigration, they do not have to wait for attention to health problems. They are similarly unaffected by their much acclaimed "cost-of-living crisis" and enjoy incomes many times that of most of their constituents.
The only difference between them and the Tories is that the Tories do not despise and denounce anybody who tries to do the same as they do (i.e. earn a few bob, keep as much of it as they can, do the best for their children, etc.).
Both parties need to beware of voter defection to UKIP but I would suggest that the Tories need to be more so. The reason for this is that there are huge numbers of Labour voters who would vote for a donkey provided it had a red rosette pinned onto its ear and would never dream of voting any other way, whatever the Labour Party threatens to do or however much their concerns are ignored (it's what my father did, and his father before him, etc. etc). Talk of their core vote collapsing in the North is a bit previous. By contrast true Tory voters have nobody to vote for among the main parties and are turning their attentions elsewhere to have their voices heard.
They send their children either to private schools or highly selective State schools, they live in areas largely unaffected by mass immigration, they do not have to wait for attention to health problems. They are similarly unaffected by their much acclaimed "cost-of-living crisis" and enjoy incomes many times that of most of their constituents.
The only difference between them and the Tories is that the Tories do not despise and denounce anybody who tries to do the same as they do (i.e. earn a few bob, keep as much of it as they can, do the best for their children, etc.).
Both parties need to beware of voter defection to UKIP but I would suggest that the Tories need to be more so. The reason for this is that there are huge numbers of Labour voters who would vote for a donkey provided it had a red rosette pinned onto its ear and would never dream of voting any other way, whatever the Labour Party threatens to do or however much their concerns are ignored (it's what my father did, and his father before him, etc. etc). Talk of their core vote collapsing in the North is a bit previous. By contrast true Tory voters have nobody to vote for among the main parties and are turning their attentions elsewhere to have their voices heard.
Haven't we done this to death a couple of days ago?
UKIP will undoubtedly take some votes from Labour, but they will take a lot more from the Conservatives.
The last 3 by elections, Labour held onto their seat, and the Conservatives lost both of theirs to UKIP.
I can see why the Daily Mail and the right wingers want to big up the effect UKIP will have on the Labour vote. Because it distracts from the far more damage they will cause the Conservatives.
At the election, Europe and Immigration will be low on peoples' reason for voting. It always is. What will influence voters will be the economy (Osborne's record is poor), the NHS and whether they feel worse off than they did 5 years ago. UKIP don't really have any credible policies on those things.
UKIP will undoubtedly take some votes from Labour, but they will take a lot more from the Conservatives.
The last 3 by elections, Labour held onto their seat, and the Conservatives lost both of theirs to UKIP.
I can see why the Daily Mail and the right wingers want to big up the effect UKIP will have on the Labour vote. Because it distracts from the far more damage they will cause the Conservatives.
At the election, Europe and Immigration will be low on peoples' reason for voting. It always is. What will influence voters will be the economy (Osborne's record is poor), the NHS and whether they feel worse off than they did 5 years ago. UKIP don't really have any credible policies on those things.
AOG
The latest YouGov poll shows a sharp rise in UKIP support.
And a sharp decline in the Conservatives support.
The Labour vote is flat.
I wonder why the Daily Mail are not repirting it?
https:/
The latest YouGov poll shows a sharp rise in UKIP support.
And a sharp decline in the Conservatives support.
The Labour vote is flat.
I wonder why the Daily Mail are not repirting it?
https:/
"At the election, Europe and Immigration will be low on peoples' reason for voting. It always is..."
It may always have been, Gromit, but I would not be sure that the same now applies. Certainly immigration (which many people link with Europe) is becoming increasingly of concern as numbers of migrants increase. This report provides some interesting findings:
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To save you ploughing through it all (and I have not) figure 2 shows that (a year ago) around 40% of respondents believed immigration to be the most important issue of concern. Figure 3 shows over 50% raising immigration as a major issue with their MP. Figure 5 shows that 80% saw it as a major issue in the UK (though only 30% saw it as a problem in their local area). Figure 8 shows that 70-80% of those seeking work see immigration as a bad thing for Britain.
Whether these people are right or wrong is not relevant. It is what they think that matters and what they think may have an considerable influence on the way they vote - even if they are wrong. The vast increase in in new arrivals (560,000 arrived to settle last year) is having a considerable effect on the importance people place on immigration and to assume that they have not bothered about it much in the past so they never will is a bit rash.
It may always have been, Gromit, but I would not be sure that the same now applies. Certainly immigration (which many people link with Europe) is becoming increasingly of concern as numbers of migrants increase. This report provides some interesting findings:
https:/
To save you ploughing through it all (and I have not) figure 2 shows that (a year ago) around 40% of respondents believed immigration to be the most important issue of concern. Figure 3 shows over 50% raising immigration as a major issue with their MP. Figure 5 shows that 80% saw it as a major issue in the UK (though only 30% saw it as a problem in their local area). Figure 8 shows that 70-80% of those seeking work see immigration as a bad thing for Britain.
Whether these people are right or wrong is not relevant. It is what they think that matters and what they think may have an considerable influence on the way they vote - even if they are wrong. The vast increase in in new arrivals (560,000 arrived to settle last year) is having a considerable effect on the importance people place on immigration and to assume that they have not bothered about it much in the past so they never will is a bit rash.
As a matter of fact the extensive YouGov survey shoes that immigration is not an obsession with 75% of voters. and given that in the non-AV voting system voters can only pick one party that does not bode well for a party that puts all it's eggs in that particular basket
Interestingly though UKIP seem possibly to be changing their tune perhaps. I heard Farage saying the other day that 'all ideas were up for discussion' or words to that effect. In the mouth of any other party leader that would perhaps be seen as clueless opportunism but when Nige says it it sounds appealing perhaps because he and all of us know his party is not going to have power. But they seem to have morphed from what looked like a right wing pressure group goading the Tories into greater EuroScepticism into the general voice of the politically dispossessed. Seeing a gap in the market perhaps and going for it. That would be really good if only they had sensible policies. But they seem at the moment to be looking to see who will support them and then possibly cobbling together policies to suit. If that's the case then it will not end well
Interestingly though UKIP seem possibly to be changing their tune perhaps. I heard Farage saying the other day that 'all ideas were up for discussion' or words to that effect. In the mouth of any other party leader that would perhaps be seen as clueless opportunism but when Nige says it it sounds appealing perhaps because he and all of us know his party is not going to have power. But they seem to have morphed from what looked like a right wing pressure group goading the Tories into greater EuroScepticism into the general voice of the politically dispossessed. Seeing a gap in the market perhaps and going for it. That would be really good if only they had sensible policies. But they seem at the moment to be looking to see who will support them and then possibly cobbling together policies to suit. If that's the case then it will not end well
And to get back to the original question it's probably not true that Labour is the party of the working class. Most Labour support in the last election came for the first time primarily from middle class voters. Society has changed so much that it's no longer the case that there is a large working class whose vote is crucial to Labour. Ironically that is the reason or one of them perhaps that some 'working class' folk are turning to UKIP as they feel that neither of the main parties speaks for them something as I said above that Mr Farage is currently milking for all it's worth
Lord Ashcroft's Polls in 89 Key marginal seats makes interesting reading
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mikey4444
/// The "white" working class ? What about the working classes that aren't pure lily white ? And should we be at all surprised that UKIP attracts white working class people, and that the Daily Mail tells us so ? ///
If you had look at the chart you would see that only 21% of 'all voters' said Labour were most in touch with the working classes and 20% of 'White' Labour voters said the same.
And it wasn't the Daily Mail that told us but YouGov.
/// The "white" working class ? What about the working classes that aren't pure lily white ? And should we be at all surprised that UKIP attracts white working class people, and that the Daily Mail tells us so ? ///
If you had look at the chart you would see that only 21% of 'all voters' said Labour were most in touch with the working classes and 20% of 'White' Labour voters said the same.
And it wasn't the Daily Mail that told us but YouGov.
The only 'poll' which will carry any weight whatsoever, is the result on the Friday morning following the General Election.
As, is usual, all those voters presently grumbling about the 'big two' and vowing to make a positive change by voting for UKIP, or similar, will have a crisis of conscience whilst in the polling booth and put their crosses wherever they would have done had UKIP not existed.....if only to prevent a victory for whichever party they despise the most.
As, is usual, all those voters presently grumbling about the 'big two' and vowing to make a positive change by voting for UKIP, or similar, will have a crisis of conscience whilst in the polling booth and put their crosses wherever they would have done had UKIP not existed.....if only to prevent a victory for whichever party they despise the most.
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