New World Order. Illuminati

[beezaneez]

whats it all about, im very confused about it all. masonic order and illuminati etc, if masons are linked to illuninati and satanism as in aleister crawley then how come the nights templars fought for christians in jerusalem against muslims ? ive read that the nights templars are linked to free masons ?

all very confusing , but interesting

[Zacs-Master]

The Knights Templar fought for Christianity because the believed it expunged them of all sin and would therefore secure them a place in heaven. As for the other stuff I'm not at all sure.

[jake-the-peg]

The Knights templar were an order of Warrior Monks (Along with the Knights Hospitiler) who were formed to protect pilgrims going to Jerusalem.

They became very rich anf Phillip IV of France had it's leaders arrested charged with various things and executed seizing their property.

They persisted a little elsewhere but died out.

They are a great favorite of conspiracy theorists though who claim they survived and are secretly running the world or some such nonsense

If anybody is talking about the templars after the early 14th century they're probably cranks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar

Free masonry arose about 400 years later - all the guff about the Temple of Solomon and the medieval temples is just fantasy

The first grand lodge was formed in 1717

It basically was a great meeting place for the aristocracy (who had influence) to meet with the rising merchant classes (who had money)

Outside of Freemasonry crossing such class boundries was frowned up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_masons#History

Umberto Eco's book Fouquet's Pendulum is a great story of conspiracy theories with Masons, the Illuminati, the Knights Templar and Jewish Cabala. It can be a challenging read but is one of my favorite books

[jomifl]

'Foucault's pendulum' is a very good read and touches upon the holy grail and other mediaeval myths and related conspiracies. Might take some getting into but very worthwhile.

[ToraToraTora]

Load of old pony, beloved of the conspiracy theorists who have never heard of Occam.

[Hypognosis]

I almost laughed out loud when I heard Tony Robinson, on a Time Team episode, use the term "Warrior Monks" as I believed that it stems from a particular computer game series of the very recent past. (Still faves of mine, actually).

I looked it up on Wikipedia just a few days ago and the editors of that page seem to think that it was something the computer game designers invented, just to add an extra layer of difficulty for the player.

If you look for the phrase 'Warrior Monk' in publications earlier than, say, 1990, you are very unlikely to find it, was the general gist.

[atalanta]

There is ( or was ) a group called the Rosy Dawn, who were mystics connected with Masonry. They are also connected with Kabbalah ( or Cabala ) which is associated with jewish and other forms of mysticism. You may find it very difficult to get any information about these groups as they are most secretive. And if you do get information, it may well not be accurate, for the same reason.

[Hypognosis]

@atalanta

I thought the Masons were a Christian organisation - mysticism would be anathema to them, surely?

Or am I muddling up mysticism with occult practices?

While trying to clear up my confusion, I found this: -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mysticism

and, to put the wind up Harry Potter fans, there's

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=what+does+the+bible+say+about+witchcraft+and+sorcery

[jno]

the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches have aways been against freemasonry

[SirOracle]

jno You are correct that traditionally the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches are against Freemasonry,but the anti Christian lobby is wider than these two Churches.
Every Christian denomination that has carried out an enquiry into Freemasonry has pronounced against it. The one exception being the Church of England.

[Hypognosis]

@jno

//the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches have aways been against freemasonry //

There's gratitude for you, after all those churches they built!

[SirOracle]

What Churches exactly are you referring to Hypo ?.

[Hypognosis]

Hi SirO

The Catholic and Orthodox ones, of course.

(Yes I read the bit about 1717 in jtp's post but that only spoils my punchline)

;-)

[SirOracle]

Hi Hypo.. I am sorry that I don't understand your last Posting.
I think that you are getting the Knights Templar and Freemasonry confused.
Freemasonry as we know it commenced in the 18th century,long after the demise of the Knights Templar.

Maybe I have lost my sense of humour ! :-)

[Hypognosis]

Masons did all the elaborate stone carving and assembled stone buildings; churces, cathedrals, monasteries etc.

They were entirely dependent for their livelihood on the church, for centuries.

Which begs the question, what's the difference between a mason and a Freemason?

[SirOracle]

Hypo Operative masons actually built the buildings, but Speculative masons are a fraternity whose rituals are based upon the principals which were used in the past.
A speculative freemason does not physically engage in the construction of buildings. Their degree working is an allegory.

Hope this answers your question.

[jno]

Hypo - real masons get paid?

[cherryshep]

I think it's too complicated, I mean, it's great to think of a secret society that is a way to explain everything. But come on, there is no way a secret society can exist for such a long time without being revealed.