Taking A "companion" To A Disciplinary Interview

[Proofraider]

A friend of mine has been called to a disciplinary interview by his employer. He knows that he can take someone with him, but because only a very small number of people (about 6) employed by the same employer actually work at his location (they're contractors based at a different company) none of them really want to go with him because of the difficult position it would put them in as part of such a small group who have to stay working there afterwards. He doesn't know anybody else working for the same outfit at a different location who he could ask, and he isn't a member of a union. He wants to ask someone from the bigger company where they work, but that person isn't a 'fellow worker' because of course they're employed by different people, so presumably his management could say no to this. Any advice, please?

[Peter Pedant]

Hi Proof raider
Sorry your fren' is up against his employer
Shame on his co-workers for not supporting him
but of course both you and I dont know the full facts

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4581

is straight off the press.

His choice of companion does not have to be reasonable
but does have to be from the recognised category

I would ask the employer if he can take someone from the larger company to be honest

[Peter Pedant]

and this has more about it on p.23
http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/a/4/Discipline-and-grievances-Acas-guide.pdf

[Peter Pedant]

Oh I know,
he just makes an application to take along companion X from ABC

and leave it to the employer to say yay or nay

The employee basically then says the request is reasonable for the very undertstandable reason that no one nearer wishes to go with him because they fear victimisation

[Proofraider]

Thanks, Peter P - we checked the Act this morning and it says "another of the employer's workers" which is the problem my friend has now. I think he may have to ask his management if he can bring an outsider given the limited options for finding a proper fellow worker, and if they say no, he'll have to note this as not being very reasonable under the circumstances and put that to a tribunal later, if things come to that. I think the others who work with him are scared that they'll be marked down as troublemakers afterwards if they accompany him, and as you say, they haven't been party to everything that's gone on because he's kept it confidential, as most of us would. I think he should get another job and leave before he's sacked for some minor further problem: I think they're using it as an excuse to get rid of someone who they could replace with a cheaper person, but again as you say, I don't know all the ins and outs of it. Thanks for taking the time to reply!

[EDDIE51]

Could he get a solicitor to go with him, or someone from the CAB? Otherwise just a friend or relative?

[boxtops]

Accompanying him doesn't actually put any black mark on the other employees though - surely - they are going to listen and accompany, the "friend" role is not to chip in on behalf of the person being disciplined.

[Peter Pedant]

The allowed categories are in the references I have given Eddie

taking anyone else is in the gift of the employer
hence the question

we dont know that the employer is intent on making difficulties and if they apply, then the employer may say yes [ for fear of being found unreasonable at a later tribunal ]

[Peter Pedant]

BXt we dont now all the facts

and altho the other six men sound like wet paper bags who have no back-bone between them - they may have other information we dont ( like they know he's done it )

[Proofraider]

Hi, all, thanks for your interest - as far as I know, this meeting is about the disciplinary matter, in which case, if I understand the ACAS guide correctly, the "companion" can do a bit more than observe - it says they can speak for the person, put their case, respond on their behalf and confer with them during the meeting, which I think is quite a lot to ask from someone who isn't a Personnel-type person. They should also be a union rep, someone employed by a union or a fellow worker, which is where this question started. Employers can, but aren't obliged to, allow someone in who isn't in one of those categories. My friend has asked someone today from the bigger company to go with him and she said no - she asked her boss about it, who said it wouldn't be 'appropriate', so he's stuck. I've been telling him for weeks to get better prepared by collecting emails and making file notes etc to support his case but I think he's been coasting along thinking it wouldn't happen, which you can't do these days. The CAB apparently advised him to join a union, but when he spoke to various ones they all said they wouldn't help in a case that was already under way anyhow, so he didn't join anything. I suppose if he ends up getting sacked, he can at least go to a tribunal properly later.

[chokkie]

Hello proofraider - I fell victim to one of these "disciplinaries" just before Christmas, just because of an easy mistake I made whereby an email got sent to the wrong person. Anyway, initially my husband offered to come with me to the initial interview, but we didn't think it was a very good idea and, because I had been asked to keep the matter confidential, I couldn't take any of my colleagues at work. I am a member of a union, so my union rep came with me to the interview. It's a shame that your friend isn't a member of a union, because they would be able to go with him to the interview. Actually during the course of the interview, my union rep didn't do very much, other than take notes of the proceedings of the meeting. Perhaps your friend can take a family member?

[MallyJ]

Union rep every time .....

[Peter Pedant]

I dont think he is unionised which is why we are discussing it

[Proofraider]

As said in the initial question, he isn't a union member. The CAB advised him to join one and he spoke to two or three appropriate ones, but they all told him that they wouldn't represent him in a matter that was already underway before he became a member, even if he joined right now. I've suggested that he speaks to someone in the Personnel dept of the larger firm where he's located, but I bet they'll come back and say they won't go with him either. If it was just a meeting where he needed an observer and someone to take notes, a family member might be OK, but as I've said this is beyond that and he needs someone who could speak for him if necessary on the same terms as his employer, who are also going to have Personnel (or "HR" as they call it) person there via a phone conference link. Personally, I can see how this is going and I think he might as well get it over with and go to a proper employment lawyer afterwards. Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

[EDDIE51]

Is he in danger of dismissal or is this just a formal warning?
If he is facing possible dismissal I would consult an employment lawyer now!
Can we know what the charge is?
You can only be dismissed for 'Gross misconduct' and the conditions for it are very specific and must be followed to the letter of the law

[horselady]

My daughter was in a very similar situation, she took along a friend who is actually a solicitor but hasn't worked since she started a family. She wasn't permitted to speak or intervene in any way, just took notes, but it was good to have that other person picking up on points that could have been missed. It all came out in my daughter's favour, thank goodness. She did have to ask permission to take that person though.

[TWR]

Put a recorder I your pocket, make sure it's working I did even though our union rep was there.

[EDDIE51]

^^Good idea make sure you tell them you are recording the interview.

[TWR]

I only told the Union rep about it Eddie, as things worked out the company was at fault & I proved it.

[Proofraider]

Well, he went. They wouldn't let him take the Personnel person from the bigger firm, even though that person was willing to go - no surprise there. They gave him some document about an hour before the meeting that said it was a preliminary hearing about performance, and now they've given him a month's review but if they consider that nothing's improved at that point, he could get a written warning, which I gather is the first stage of their sacking process. I've told him that if he really wants to hang on and go through all this to the obvious conclusion, he should at least be making really good file notes in case he needs to argue a case for unfair dismissal later on.