ChatterBank1 min ago
Conservatives Will Have First Black Or Asian Pm
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Obama won the election in 2008 because he sounded good. Brilliant public speaker, at least at the beginning. He won again in 2012 because his opposition was pretty poor. He was, or appeared to be, the best person for the job.
His record since then is, perhaps, not as impressive as was hoped. (/understatement). I tend to think that this is because of the way US politics works, rather than being his fault.
I expect the first black/ asian/ PM to be up to the job as well. Or at least, no less up to it than David Cameron is.
His record since then is, perhaps, not as impressive as was hoped. (/understatement). I tend to think that this is because of the way US politics works, rather than being his fault.
I expect the first black/ asian/ PM to be up to the job as well. Or at least, no less up to it than David Cameron is.
THECORBYLOON
Some people think that if you're black or a woman, then automatically, your skills or competence need to be questioned. AOG once asked me whether I had been successful in my career due to positive discrimination, and I'm not sure he understands how insulting that is.
The first black or Asian PM will have to deal with those questions, and certain people will treat any failings this prospective PM as a by-product of their race - especially from those who believe that black people are inherently less intelligent than other races.
Whether or not this PM is the best person for the job can be levelled at many of our leaders, both in and out of Parliament.
Did we have the best people heading our banks financial institutions the recent banking crisis? Were the best people running the mortgage companies when they were saddled with toxic loans? Did we have the best people making decisions when we engaged in the 'war on terror'?
Arguably not.
However, if any of these people were black or Asian, you can guarantee that some people would assert that they were in those positions because of positive discrimination.
It's a tactic.
Some people think that if you're black or a woman, then automatically, your skills or competence need to be questioned. AOG once asked me whether I had been successful in my career due to positive discrimination, and I'm not sure he understands how insulting that is.
The first black or Asian PM will have to deal with those questions, and certain people will treat any failings this prospective PM as a by-product of their race - especially from those who believe that black people are inherently less intelligent than other races.
Whether or not this PM is the best person for the job can be levelled at many of our leaders, both in and out of Parliament.
Did we have the best people heading our banks financial institutions the recent banking crisis? Were the best people running the mortgage companies when they were saddled with toxic loans? Did we have the best people making decisions when we engaged in the 'war on terror'?
Arguably not.
However, if any of these people were black or Asian, you can guarantee that some people would assert that they were in those positions because of positive discrimination.
It's a tactic.
sp1814
/// AOG once asked me whether I had been successful in my career due to positive discrimination, and I'm not sure he understands how insulting that
is. ///
You never said in what context I had asked that question, I would not have been directly insulting, but if I were then all I can do is apologise to you.
Having hopefully settled that 'Positive Discrimination' does take place, and that you cannot deny, so may I now ask you, do you agree with it?
/// AOG once asked me whether I had been successful in my career due to positive discrimination, and I'm not sure he understands how insulting that
is. ///
You never said in what context I had asked that question, I would not have been directly insulting, but if I were then all I can do is apologise to you.
Having hopefully settled that 'Positive Discrimination' does take place, and that you cannot deny, so may I now ask you, do you agree with it?
AOG
I think we need to be clear on positive discrimination. It happens all the time and it happens across racial, religious and gender lines.
If I were interviewing two candidates for a position on my team, and one was from an upper middle class family, went to private school and the to Oxbridge, and the other grew up in a one parent family on a rough estate...if both of them were equally qualified, I would most likely pick the housing estate kid, because I know that the other candidate has a much greater chance of success in life, because there are no barriers to him (or her).
However, counter to that, I'm not convinced by positive discrimination generally. It's a poisoned chalice.
In the example I gave on two job candidates, they were equally skilled...but that never happens in real life. You never get two candidates that are exactly alike in abilities.
If the 'housing estate candidate' were less skilled than the 'Oxbridge candidate', then he wouldn't get the job. Same goes for race. Whoever is best wins.
What we need to be really careful about is thinking that the Conservatives would elect a leader primarily because they are black or Asian. That's not what this is about...it's about numbers. Cameron is saying that numerically, the Conservatives have the most black/Asian MPs, so it's fair to say that the first black or Asian PM will be a Conservative.
I think that's slightly muddle-headed (there are a lot of other factors to consider), but I understand what he's driving at.
I think we need to be clear on positive discrimination. It happens all the time and it happens across racial, religious and gender lines.
If I were interviewing two candidates for a position on my team, and one was from an upper middle class family, went to private school and the to Oxbridge, and the other grew up in a one parent family on a rough estate...if both of them were equally qualified, I would most likely pick the housing estate kid, because I know that the other candidate has a much greater chance of success in life, because there are no barriers to him (or her).
However, counter to that, I'm not convinced by positive discrimination generally. It's a poisoned chalice.
In the example I gave on two job candidates, they were equally skilled...but that never happens in real life. You never get two candidates that are exactly alike in abilities.
If the 'housing estate candidate' were less skilled than the 'Oxbridge candidate', then he wouldn't get the job. Same goes for race. Whoever is best wins.
What we need to be really careful about is thinking that the Conservatives would elect a leader primarily because they are black or Asian. That's not what this is about...it's about numbers. Cameron is saying that numerically, the Conservatives have the most black/Asian MPs, so it's fair to say that the first black or Asian PM will be a Conservative.
I think that's slightly muddle-headed (there are a lot of other factors to consider), but I understand what he's driving at.
sp1814
You have failed to address the real definition of positive discrimination, we are not talking about selecting candidates of an equal skill factor but the fact that if you were selecting a team would you directly discriminate against white candidates so as to employ a number of black candidates, simply to balance the 'colour' ratio?
You have failed to address the real definition of positive discrimination, we are not talking about selecting candidates of an equal skill factor but the fact that if you were selecting a team would you directly discriminate against white candidates so as to employ a number of black candidates, simply to balance the 'colour' ratio?
THECORBYLOON
/// ANOTHEOLDIT, do you think a black or Asian person could be the best person to be a PM? ///
I disagree with the way Prime Minsters are selected now, they should be selected by the public, but to answer your question, the colour of one's skin should not come into it, ie "eh lets be first to select a black or Asian PM".
/// ANOTHEOLDIT, do you think a black or Asian person could be the best person to be a PM? ///
I disagree with the way Prime Minsters are selected now, they should be selected by the public, but to answer your question, the colour of one's skin should not come into it, ie "eh lets be first to select a black or Asian PM".
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