An age old problem!!!

[Nelli]

I would like the male perspective on this, I am not moaning I would acutally like some good advice! I am not a nagging GF (I would like to think so anyway ;-) ) My BF and I both work Full time, at pretty intense careers. I do all our household accounts, I pay all his bills (joint account....am not that stupid) I do all the laundry, all the tidying up, any legal problems that arise (my BF tends to bury his head in the sand). But he won't do a thing. I understand that running a house, involves both partners doing their fair share of different things, I would just like him to fix my hot water tank, or fix my radiator (cold house and no hot water since Sep!) but everytime I quietly try and approach the subject I am accused of moaning, and I'm not, I try and be really constructive about it, or encouraging. Any men out there got any angles?...Please help.

[andy hughes]

Hey Nelli ditch him, marry me! There is a serious point to that opener - you are far too kind and generous, and things have reached a severely unequal status in your relationship. There are two or three ways to approach this. First - the 'talking' approach. Find some time, maybe a weekend, and advise him that you want to talk to him. As a man, i can assure you this will send warning bells clanging in his head, but persist, and tell him it's for his benefit as well. Calmly lay out all the things you do, and tell him you are getting resentful, and you need his help to put things right - appealing to his better nature may neutralise his idea that you are 'nagging'. If it may lead to a row, do it over dinner in a restaurant, it means it can't degenerate into a shouting match! If that fails, write it all down, and give him time to read it, and then discuss the points afterwards. If that fails, simply withdraw all the things you do - stop doing his washing and ironing, cook for yourself, leave him to do the same, he'll soon stop taking yu for granted, and that's what is happening here. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

[Nelli]

andy I'm running off with you ;-). Funnily enough, I did at one point get so frustrated I boxed up all our cutlery and invested in paper plates and plastic knives!! got expensive though. Thanks Andy, I will try your talking approach first, failing that the letter approach, and thank you again for the serious answer. :-)

[treaclefight]

there does come a point where you dont have to be so reasonable, coming up to 3 months of cold and no hot water....i'd be getting pretty militant by then. go on strike. feed yourself, iron your own clothes, tidy your own mess, pay your own bills and let him fend for himself. i should warn you that i have taken this approach before and the bf in question did run home to mummy after a fortnight and she kept him. that got on my nerves at the time but i have been much better of without him. i go on strike when current bf turns into a lazy arse, but he responds with humour, accuses me of being worse than the french and rolls his sleeves up and gets on with whatever it was that i am on strike about. in turn when i am to busy to do what he thinks is important he threatens to do the laundry or cook a roast, the potential consequences of which are enough to bring me back home in a flash with some gentle teasing about what a big baby he his. the key is the humour and the humour comes from very good communication skills, you need to be upbeat and positive and a bit bolshy to get his attention, he needs to get off his arse :-D

[Nelli]

You see when I go on strike I get called a Selfish Cow! when I argue that he can talk. I get told to "shut up", it's as if he really doesn't hear me at all, which is worrying. This all sounds as if I'm a push over, I'm not, for instance the sales manager at work calls me Carrie, 'as he really won't risk pi&*&*ng me off ;-) I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if he appreciated all the work I do do!......*sigh* ...... I will talk to him tonight. Will keep you updated. One thing I will say, he never gets fed, my kitchen is purely for decoration, the poor guy has to live-on cornflakes, Ready Brek, and Marmite on toast!....anyway that's enough moaning & advertising for today! ;-)

[FTVS]

You have to make it clear in a "non-blaming" way that he needs to partcipate in running the household as well. I tend to say "would you please do the ... rubbish/vacuuming/help me with whatever. He doesn't do it on my timetable but he is does do it. Sometimes I chase him up with "I know I've asked you already but i would really appreciate it if you would..." I also simply do not do teh jobs that are his. he knows Sunday is rubbish day I'll ask him a few times and then leave it. What you don't say is how long you have been together or how long this has been going on. If all else fails, I'm with Teacle, simply go on strike. You haveto play that one carefully though as you cannot get into a row about it as this would make it worse. Good luck.

[FTVS]

cross posted with you here Nellie - he spunds like he doesn't deserve you love.

[Hellion]

Sadly Nelli I have found many men fall into two categories, those who had sensible mothers who made them useful people and those with silly mothers who looked after their 'babies' every need and did them and their future wives/gf's no favours whatsoever. Before living with anyone meet his mother first and watch out for the warning signs!

[Nelli]

Hellion never a truer word Spoken/written! I used to go out with this guy, he was 27, baby of the family, still lived at home, and his mum used to sprinkle sugar on his salad so he would eat it!!!...needless to say, it didn't last long! My BF's mum, although she didn't baby him, she was rather like my mum who had the attitude that when you get older you have to do enough tidying up, so why do it when you are young. Have to admit, if I had children I wouldn't play it like that!

[paulz]

Nelli - make him think it was his idea and you'll win everytime. Chat but don't come across as nagging or it'll never go right. Can't add much more to what everyone else has advised; or promise/temp him a treat when he's done something that needs doing [bit like training a puppy] Good luck ;+)

[kriskwery]

This is better than "Dear Dierdre"! My first thoughts also are that you should jettison this man - but perhaps he has virtues that you've failed to mention .... relationships are all about balance and compromise. I spent quite a while getting my husband to accept the principle that he wasn't doing the vacuuming or washing-up or whatever "for me" but "FOR US". He got there in the end but he's also now my ex-husband, so perhaps it wasn't really such a good idea!

[Nelli]

Thankyou, everyone, for all your advice, I had a chat with him, and explained that I was beginning to feel a little resentful as I was doing everything....I think though the main problem is he is suffering from depression, which as a past sufferer I do understand and have sympathy for, but, and I don't know if anyone out there would agree with me, depression sufferers unfortunately tend to be selfish, it's as if it's part and parcel of the illness. As a result, my BF experiences life solely from his point of view. I have told him he needs help, but he's one of those types who burys his head in the sand, where I'm a very confrontative personality. Like I said, I did talk to him about it, and he said he would help me....but that was Friday, and althoug it is early days, still no sign of our washing up being done!

[andy hughes]

Hello again - whislt waitring for our arrangements to run off together (!) I thought I'd post a further thought, based on the considerable input from my colleagues, and your own addition. As you know, depression does employ selfish behaviour as a cornerstone, so it needs to be addressed for the benefit of you both, but you need to be sure it is depression, not being depressed, which of course is not the same thing. I hope this works out, but if you have given it your best shot, and tried all reasonable avenues of communication, drastic action may be the final resort, but hang in there if you can. Keep us posted.

[paulz]

Nelli - I've had the black dog of depression chasing me, luckily I now know how to keep him under control. What worked for me was scribbling everything down on a notepad, good, bad, happy, sad, indifferent no effect etc. Tell him to do it in private if he wishes, and whatever he writes down you won't take as a personal attack. Then big up the good bits, get rid of the bad bits as much as you can. There may be things he wants to do, but can't for whatever reason, feels even more of a failure - like plumbing? If he loves/wants/inderstands you, he should be able to do this for both of you - if he wants to keep the relationship going. Better to be honest with each other even if it hurts a bit - just my opiion - worked better than all the pills in the chemist [much cheaper too!]. hope that makes sense - as Andy your eloper says, let us know, we're no experts, what works for one might not for others - Good Luck!

[Nelli]

Oh the depths of depression, as previously said I was a sufferer (Andy I feel you ought to know this, seeing as we may be eloping!) but I volunteered to take part in an Oxford University Psychiatric investigation on the illness, I was treated for 18 months, by Ox Uni's Pyschologists, Psychiatrists (TrickCyclists), and the like and I have to admit I feel cured. I never used to believe that that was possible, once a sufferer always a sufferer and you were just taught to cope with it! but my life changed dramatically after treatment, just wish I could send my BF there! But yes treatment by yourself is possible, PaulZ, I think you jsut have to be strong enough to heal yourself. Some improvements on the home front though, my BF actually took some plates from the living room to the kitchen! (believe me it may not sound like much....but I was very impressed). :-)

[andy hughes]

It is a big deal, given the circumstances - so I'm sure you'll make a fuss of him for doing it - as one of my colleagues has intimated, men are fond of praise (yes, I know women do all the chores because they are there, but we are talking a man here!) so I hope this is the turning point. Keep going, and of course, if it doesn't work, meet me at Waterloo station, I'll be carrying a copy of yesterday's 'Ways To Garotte Your Boyfriend And Not Make A Mess On The Carpet' magazine. Later!

[Nelli]

:-D *LOL*

[incitatus]

as a recovering depressive. (which, like recovering alcoholics, i will always think of myself as) i agree that selfish behaviour is part of the parcel. i also agree that treatment is possible. I benefitted from a year of intensive therapy and have not been depressed now for five years. And when i feel myself going there again i know how to deal with it. I think the thing is in knowing your own routes to derail the depressive cycle. with me it is either cuddles or mountains. Preferably mountains. Everyone needs to find their own mountain substitute. enough blither. Nelli, andy, if we move to the alps we could open a commune....tidy happy people holding hands.....

[Lennon]

Hi ya. One other suggestion is to maybe watch Wife Swap on Channel 4 or E4. As much as I'm really starting to hate reality TV shows, I have watched a couple of these episodes and in both of them it has really made a difference for the couples involved. More often that not, one of the partners does so much around the house and the other does not realise it. When that person who does everything is gone, they really appreciate what they do, and when they have to do it all themselves, they are in awe at how you do it. Maybe try and watch it together and you could make a point that way??? Good luck with it though, and if all else fails, I would like an invite to yours and Andy's wedding! :)

[Nelli]

...*LOL*...."Tidy Happy People Holding Hands"...that's gonna keep me laughing till the New Year!!!