insurance

[kwakteam]

driving without insurance and carrying no L plates why do u only get done for 1 offence why not both? and how long is it till u go to court in this kind of matter?

[JudgeJ]

Good grief, kwakteam, you don�t half go on!. In one of my earlier answers you will have noticed that I addressed one of your latest questions:

�When you are convicted of a number of motoring offences which were committed at the same time you can be fined for each of them individually, but you only receive penalty points for the most serious."

So you are getting "done" for both offences (and in fact will probably be fined separately for each one and your licence will be endorsed for them both) but points are only awarded for the most serious. This is as a result of sentencing practice which has developed since the points system was introduced. The idea of the points system is to punish (by disqualification) drivers who commit a string of minor offences. It was considered that a number of offences committed at the same time amounts to offending on one occasion only, and so cannot be considered a "string".

My own view is that the practice is not good justice. If you commit two offences (even though they may have been detected at the same time) you deserve separate penalty points for each offence. If those penalties when combined take you over the twelve point limit then a disqualification is due.If anything, the motorist charged with the usual trilogy of offences (No Insurance, No Licence and no MoT) is probably a greater danger to other road users that somebody who commits lesser offences, but on separate occasions. But there we are, our over-lenient justice system once again gives undue benefit to the criminal.

As for timing, I assume you have been warned that you may be prosecuted for these offences, in which case the CPS has six months to bring them to court.

[kwakteam]

so basically i will only get 6 points? and will just get a fine for no L plates? and is there a chance i might get banned or will it just be license revoke? and if i dont get banned can i reaply for my license straight away? thanks judge i wonder how u know all this

[Emma-J]

Actually its just gone up to 8 points for Driving with no Insurance, my boyfriend was done for this 2 years ago, he had his accident (which caused him to get caught in the first place) in August 2003 and went to Court in January 2004, but this timescale may vary. If you have held your licence for less than 2 years then you will have to re-take your test, but if you have held it longer it is at the Court's discretion. If you are a learner i'm not sure where you stand with re-applying for your Provisional.
Take my boyfirends advice, make sure you always have Insurance, and if you didn't know, you can no longer drive someone elses vehicle on your Insurance if you are under 25, some new Law they brought in last year.

Hope this helps
Ej

[JudgeJ]

You will get a minimum of six points for No Insurance. The magistrates may decide to award more, or they can disqualify you for just the one offence. However, more than six points or a ban is unlikely provided you have no previous convictions and the offence is straightforward (i.e. you did not injure anybody or cause any major damage whilst driving uninsured).

If you get six or more points your driving licence will be revoked (the magistrates have no discretion in this matter, it is done by the DVLA). Somewhat strangely, if you receive a ban it will not. (Some offenders in your position actually ask the court to impose a short ban rather than six points. This way they get to keep their full licence. Courts, however, do not usually do this.).

If your licence is revoked it means that your full bike licence and your provisional car licence will no longer be valid. You will have to apply for a new provisional licence and take all parts of the test for the group or groups of vehicles you wish to drive. Until you receive your new provisional licence you must not drive any vehicle. If you do you can be prosecuted for driving without a licence.

I know most of this from a (long) lifetime of learning. Magistrates� sentencing guidelines are available for all to see on the Web.

[JudgeJ]

My post crossed with Emma-J�s.

Nothing has gone up to eight points. Magistrates have the discretion to award between three and eleven points, or disqualify the offender for any driving offence which attracts points. They also have guidelines which suggest what they should award for an �average� offence of each type.

Their guidelines for driving with No Insurance suggest between 6 and 8 points, or to disqualify. Emma-J�s boyfriend probably received a harsher penalty because the offence was aggravated by being involved in an accident.

The only discretion that the court has concerning a re-test is that magistrates can disqualify an offender until he passes a test. This means he must drive as a provisional licence holder until the test is passed. This is, in fact, a harsher penalty than having your licence revoked because it means that the offender will be guilty of driving whilst disqualified instead of simply driving otherwise than in accordance with a provisional driving licence. However, this penalty is unlikely to be handed down for an offence of No Insurance. Its primary aim is for road safety purposes and is usually used where a driver�s ability to drive has been impaired by medical matters, such as deteriorating eyesight.

[kwakteam]

but if i plead in court that i need my bike to go to work and please dont make me loose my bike license will they give me 5 points instead of 6?or is there any chance that i cannot loose my bike license because i need it for work?

[Emma-J]

I would like to point out Judge J that my boyfriend was only done for driving with no Insurance, nothing else, the accident was caused by bad driving conditions and a bus! I only said that the penalty points had gone up to eight for no insurance, because I read it/saw it somewhere, I am no legal authority I am only saying what I know.

Kwakteam - I suggest you go and speak to a Legal Aid Solicitor or Citizens Advice about this, you will have some time yet before you are summonsed to Court.

Good luck
Ej

[jake-the-peg]

If courts accepted the plea that "I need the car/bike for work" then pretty much nobody would get banned!

You would probably stand a better chance if you could show other people would suffer from your being banned. For example if you could show (And I mean show rather than claim) that you do significant charity work which would have to cease if you were banned.

[Toureman]

Wishing someone like this who has no thought for other road users, only himself, saying Good Luck is beyond me!

It would have been better if he had been caught in Hampshire where the police have uninsured driver's cars crushed! and fined and given points.

Good answers as usual from the Judge!

[JudgeJ]

No, kwakteam, your appeal will fall on deaf ears. The minimum number of points that that magistrates can award for no insurance is six. Also remember that you are not being disqualified, you are only having to revert to provisional status.

Emma-J�s suggestions for you to seek help at the CAB or Legal Aid are misplaced. The CAB will simply provide you with a list of solicitors whom you can consult. You will not be entitled to Legal Aid as motoring offences (apart from the very few imprisonable ones) do not qualify you for legal aid.

[Emma-J]

i

[Emma-J]

I don't want to get into any sort of argument with anyone, but JudgeJ you are wrong, when my boyfriend went to Court for his points etc he got Legal aid, I don't know whether you are in some sort of legal professsion but that is the truth, he went to court and his case was legally aided, he didn't have to pay for the Solicitor he used but he did have to pay Court costs.

Kwakteam I really hope you have been reading these posts and get the help you need, but at the end of the day, like a told my boyfriend, and like Toureman says if you had been Insured in the first place you wouldn't be in the mess your in now.

[JudgeJ]

There is little point in us arguing Emma-J, but I can only say that the Legal Aid Act of 1988 (under which criminal Legal Aid is granted) clearly states that Legal Aid is only available where the defendant is accused of an offence which carries a custodial sentence. Exceptions are occasionally made where there is a significant point of law to be argued.

Until recently (about 6 to 9 months ago, I think) defendants charged with non-custodial offences were able to see the duty solicitor, on the day of their appearance at the magistrates court, and he might represent them in court if he was not too busy.

However, this facility was removed, as I say, some months ago. If your boyfriend did receive proper Legal Aid, he was fortunate.