Times

[mra1]

Fine cut for commentators - SHEER or SHEAR? Cannot decide on the correct answer

[bibblebub]

sheer

'for commentators' is next to 'cut' only

[dannyk13]

Sheer (sounds like shear)

[mra1]

Thank you both very much for that! I hate these either or clues - never sure which way to jump!

[bibblebub]

What works for me is to take the wordplay as direct instructions for what to do with the letters now, rather than as an indication of the result of having already done them.

[TheFrogman]

What I wrote on another thread a while back:

To help you decide in future:- the clue will break into (1) a definition of the solution and (2) the wordplay (here the 'sounds like' bit). First question - is the 'sounds like' indicator at one end of the clue? If so, that end must be the wordplay part. In "Reported witnessed incident', the 'sounds like' indicator is at the start, it's the 'witnessed' ('seen') that's being heard, and the answer is SCENE ('incident'); if it were 'Witnessed incident that's been reported', with the 'sounds like' indicator at the end, then it's the 'scene' that's being heard to produce SEEN. What about 'Witnessed reported incident', with the indicator right in the middle? Then you can't tell (it would be an unfair clue). But if there is a 'link word' then you can: in 'Witnessed results from reported incident', the linking 'results from' separates the definition ('witnessed') from the wordplay ('reported incident'), so here it is the 'scene' being reported and the answer is SEEN. In the DM clue ['Drive onto shore, say, for tree'], 'for' is the separating link word, which means that the 'say' indicator belongs unequivocally to the 'Drive onto shore', so the solution is BEECH.

[TheFrogman]

...in my specific example, you could argue that 'Witnessed reported incident' is not unfair in that the length of the solution (4 or 5) would tell you whether the answer was SEEN or SCENE, but that would not apply when the homophones were the same length.

[Mamyalynne]

I would love to read your explanation better above, if there were paragraphs.

Sorry to be picky.

[JackDunwoody]

FINE = SHEER. CUT = SHEAR sounds like (for commentators) "SHEER"

[mra1]

just got back to the site - thanks you Frogman and Jack Dunwoody - I will try to remember all that!

[TheFrogman]

Especially for Mamya 8) ...

To help you decide in future:- the clue will break into (1) a definition of the solution and (2) the wordplay (here the 'sounds like' bit).

First question - is the 'sounds like' indicator at one end of the clue? If so, that end must be the wordplay part.

In "Reported witnessed incident', the 'sounds like' indicator is at the start, it's the 'witnessed' ('seen') that's being heard, and the answer is SCENE ('incident').

If, though, it were 'Witnessed incident that's been reported', with the 'sounds like' indicator at the end, then it's the 'scene' that's being heard to produce SEEN. So with 'Fine cut for commentators', the 'shear' is being heard and the answer is SHEER.

What about 'Witnessed reported incident', with the indicator right in the middle? Then you can't tell (it would be an unfair clue, although if the lengths of the two homophones were different, as with SEEN/SCENE, then the length of the entry would tell you the answer).

But if there is a 'link word' then it's ok - in 'Witnessed results from reported incident', the linking 'results from' separates the definition ('witnessed') from the wordplay ('reported incident'), so here it is the 'scene' being reported and the answer is SEEN.

In this Daily Mail clue ['Drive onto shore, say, for tree'], 'for' is the separating link word, which means that the 'say' indicator belongs unequivocally to the 'Drive onto shore', so the solution is BEECH.

[Mamyalynne]

Much easier for all to read , thank you.

I am partially sighted and one of my pet hates is a lack of a good layout.

I hope you can see what I mean.

[TheFrogman]

Absolutely, it looked a right mess in one big 'blob'. In my defence, the lack on AB (as far as I'm aware) of a preview facility (or even the ability to expand the input box) is a real pain, as is the absence (also as far as I'm aware) of any formatting capability beyond italicisation (which, let's be honest, I'm too scared to try lest I end up with an embarrassing post containing a bunch of square brackets and no way of getting rid of it...)

[Mamyalynne]

Understood.

If you place your cursor at the bottom right corner of the answer box you can drag it down to expand.

[TheFrogman]

Thanks ML - I believe that works in Firefox and Chrome but not in IE...no prizes for guessing which browser I use! 8(

[TheFrogman]

...doesn't work with Edge either.