ChatterBank1 min ago
GBH Section 20 - Not Guilty
17 Answers
Hi,
My son has been charged with GBH section 20 and has now appeared in front of the Magistrates Court and pleaded Not Guilty. His case has been committed to the Crown Court which is causing the entire family a lot of stress.
The background is as follows: My sons friend became quite jealous of my son and his girlfriend. 2 days before the allegation, my son had a fall-out with the friend and decided to walk home. The friend called the Police on the basis that he felt concerned for my sons well being. My son confronted the friend over this, he first denied it and then admitted it and added that my son ‘Should be locked away’.
2 days late, this friend appeared at our house. My son jumped out of his bedroom window to try and get away from him, leaving my wife and the friend alone in the house. My wife had to call my son and ask him to return because she was scared. My son returned and removed the friend from the house, and that was it.
The friend arrived back at his house 30 mins later with a fractured forehead stating that my son punched him. He also stated I was there (but I wasn't). The medical evidence states that this type of injury does not result from a simple punch, and it is more likely that an object caused the injury. This friend has a history of anti-depressants and has stated he wanted to commit suicide. We believe the injury is self inflicted.
After my son was arrested, I called the parents to see if we could come to a better conclusion. This call was recorded by the father and submitted as evidence.
It seems the evidence for charging my son is based upon the other persons word against his, and the telephone call I made. We also feel the outcome will be based upon who performs best in court. Naturally we are very worried about my son being found guilty and was wondering what sentence he may receive and whether he should change his plea to guilty even though he did not do it.
My son has been charged with GBH section 20 and has now appeared in front of the Magistrates Court and pleaded Not Guilty. His case has been committed to the Crown Court which is causing the entire family a lot of stress.
The background is as follows: My sons friend became quite jealous of my son and his girlfriend. 2 days before the allegation, my son had a fall-out with the friend and decided to walk home. The friend called the Police on the basis that he felt concerned for my sons well being. My son confronted the friend over this, he first denied it and then admitted it and added that my son ‘Should be locked away’.
2 days late, this friend appeared at our house. My son jumped out of his bedroom window to try and get away from him, leaving my wife and the friend alone in the house. My wife had to call my son and ask him to return because she was scared. My son returned and removed the friend from the house, and that was it.
The friend arrived back at his house 30 mins later with a fractured forehead stating that my son punched him. He also stated I was there (but I wasn't). The medical evidence states that this type of injury does not result from a simple punch, and it is more likely that an object caused the injury. This friend has a history of anti-depressants and has stated he wanted to commit suicide. We believe the injury is self inflicted.
After my son was arrested, I called the parents to see if we could come to a better conclusion. This call was recorded by the father and submitted as evidence.
It seems the evidence for charging my son is based upon the other persons word against his, and the telephone call I made. We also feel the outcome will be based upon who performs best in court. Naturally we are very worried about my son being found guilty and was wondering what sentence he may receive and whether he should change his plea to guilty even though he did not do it.
Answers
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Evidence in court very often does consist of one person’s word against another’s. That is why courts are asked to decide such matters.
The CPS does not usually bring matters to court unless there is sufficient evidence to support a reasonable chance of conviction (in fact, if anything, they tend to err to much on the cautious side, often taking decisions away from the courts). Furthermore, for the magistrates to have committed this matter to the Crown Court (I assume your son did not elect trial by jury) the prosecution must have suggested when presenting their outline of the offence that either the assault was premeditated or that a weapon was used (without either of these factors being present the magistrates would probably have retained jurisdiction).
The outcome will be decided based on who the jury believes, with your son being given the benefit of any reasonable doubt they may have of his innocence. Offences under section 20 are serious matters for which the maximum penalty is five years custody. Your son should not plead guilty for the sake of expediency and he needs to get proper legal advice. Legal Aid may be available depending on his means.
The CPS does not usually bring matters to court unless there is sufficient evidence to support a reasonable chance of conviction (in fact, if anything, they tend to err to much on the cautious side, often taking decisions away from the courts). Furthermore, for the magistrates to have committed this matter to the Crown Court (I assume your son did not elect trial by jury) the prosecution must have suggested when presenting their outline of the offence that either the assault was premeditated or that a weapon was used (without either of these factors being present the magistrates would probably have retained jurisdiction).
The outcome will be decided based on who the jury believes, with your son being given the benefit of any reasonable doubt they may have of his innocence. Offences under section 20 are serious matters for which the maximum penalty is five years custody. Your son should not plead guilty for the sake of expediency and he needs to get proper legal advice. Legal Aid may be available depending on his means.
Many thanks for the replies.
My son has legal aid, but they don't really advise my son to any degree.
The evidence seems to be that the other person provoked my son (we all agree on that), and that he has a serious injury. My wife was present throughout and gave her statement which stated my son pulled the other person out of the house and pushed him through the garden gate and then returned to the house. She saw him throughout and no punches were thrown.
The other lad drove home and was well enough to ring my son's girl friend from a layby.
In his statement he is saying they both went into the back garden where my son hit him with his fist (no weapons) and that I was there and witnessed the whole event.
As you say, the CPS would would err on the cautios side but seem to be pushing this head on into the Crown Court. They (and our solicitor) keep mentioning an early guilty plea would reduce any sentence which makes us feel they all beleive my son will be found guilty.
There was no mention in the Magistrates Court that this was premeditated nor the use of a weapon.
It also seems that our statements (Mother and Father) are not being taken into account.
My son has legal aid, but they don't really advise my son to any degree.
The evidence seems to be that the other person provoked my son (we all agree on that), and that he has a serious injury. My wife was present throughout and gave her statement which stated my son pulled the other person out of the house and pushed him through the garden gate and then returned to the house. She saw him throughout and no punches were thrown.
The other lad drove home and was well enough to ring my son's girl friend from a layby.
In his statement he is saying they both went into the back garden where my son hit him with his fist (no weapons) and that I was there and witnessed the whole event.
As you say, the CPS would would err on the cautios side but seem to be pushing this head on into the Crown Court. They (and our solicitor) keep mentioning an early guilty plea would reduce any sentence which makes us feel they all beleive my son will be found guilty.
There was no mention in the Magistrates Court that this was premeditated nor the use of a weapon.
It also seems that our statements (Mother and Father) are not being taken into account.
I am not a legal expert - but wonder if a character witness statement from an employer could help.. has your son been in trouble before or got a clean record?
Or exemplary record?
This might help paint a picture that behaviour he is accused of is totally out of character and therefore not necessarily a true story.
Additionally - same applies to the accuser... any history of mental issues, criminal record, deceitful behaviour?
not sure if it helps or not - but you might want to arm yourself with it incase!
And as for the solicitors.. you need to have a frank conversation with them if you feel they are not representing your son to their best ability!
Or exemplary record?
This might help paint a picture that behaviour he is accused of is totally out of character and therefore not necessarily a true story.
Additionally - same applies to the accuser... any history of mental issues, criminal record, deceitful behaviour?
not sure if it helps or not - but you might want to arm yourself with it incase!
And as for the solicitors.. you need to have a frank conversation with them if you feel they are not representing your son to their best ability!
Thanks again for your answer.
My son has never been in trouble before and we have Character References although it seems these will only be used if he is found guilty.
The telephone call worries me. I don't beleive the recording can be used, but I have a feeling the transcript from the call can be. During this call, all I wanted to do was to have a meeting with the father (who I knew as a family friend) to discuss the events further. He kept putting me under pressure to admit the allegation.
I just felt that if I denied the allegation, he would end the call and would not meet with me. I didn't admit the allegation either, but I don't think this will look good if this is submitted in front of the Jury.
I feel as if I have buried my son due to my own stupidity.
Help !
My son has never been in trouble before and we have Character References although it seems these will only be used if he is found guilty.
The telephone call worries me. I don't beleive the recording can be used, but I have a feeling the transcript from the call can be. During this call, all I wanted to do was to have a meeting with the father (who I knew as a family friend) to discuss the events further. He kept putting me under pressure to admit the allegation.
I just felt that if I denied the allegation, he would end the call and would not meet with me. I didn't admit the allegation either, but I don't think this will look good if this is submitted in front of the Jury.
I feel as if I have buried my son due to my own stupidity.
Help !
well surely its good that you didnt admit the allegation...
There are some really good ABers here who can advise you...
If I see BARMAID I'll send her here to provide advice
You really need to speak to your legal representatives too - esp if you think they are doing your son a dis-service... Is your solicitor a junior? Can you ask to speak to someone higher up? Dont give up!!!!
There are some really good ABers here who can advise you...
If I see BARMAID I'll send her here to provide advice
You really need to speak to your legal representatives too - esp if you think they are doing your son a dis-service... Is your solicitor a junior? Can you ask to speak to someone higher up? Dont give up!!!!
Would really want advise.
It could be that this just has to go to Crown Court because of the injury and the allegation (and because the other person is sticking to his side of the story)
Our solicitor is 'OK' but very busy. I feel he is not going to advise us any further because a Barrister will be invovled at the Crown Court, but our anxiety is high and my family is falling apart.
Many thanks
It could be that this just has to go to Crown Court because of the injury and the allegation (and because the other person is sticking to his side of the story)
Our solicitor is 'OK' but very busy. I feel he is not going to advise us any further because a Barrister will be invovled at the Crown Court, but our anxiety is high and my family is falling apart.
Many thanks
Also... (sorry to keep double posting!)
You state "The friend arrived back at his house 30 mins later with a fractured forehead stating that my son punched him. He also stated I was there (but I wasn't). The medical evidence states that this type of injury does not result from a simple punch, and it is more likely that an object caused the injury. This friend has a history of anti-depressants and has stated he wanted to commit suicide."
Where was the chap for the 30 minutes between leaving yours and arriving at his?
Is this injury consistent with headbutting a wall for example?
Does he have any history of emotional episodes and self harm?
The medical evidence must be used to defend your son if the injury is not consistent with the punch he allegedly threw.
You state "The friend arrived back at his house 30 mins later with a fractured forehead stating that my son punched him. He also stated I was there (but I wasn't). The medical evidence states that this type of injury does not result from a simple punch, and it is more likely that an object caused the injury. This friend has a history of anti-depressants and has stated he wanted to commit suicide."
Where was the chap for the 30 minutes between leaving yours and arriving at his?
Is this injury consistent with headbutting a wall for example?
Does he have any history of emotional episodes and self harm?
The medical evidence must be used to defend your son if the injury is not consistent with the punch he allegedly threw.
Thanks Nosha - but there are far more experienced people on here than me who deal with criminal law. The reason this has to go to the Crown is the type of offence. GBH is indictable only, which means it can only be tried in the Crown Court.
An early guilty plea will result in up to a third off his likely sentence. The only reason this has been mentioned is that it is standard. He should not plead guilty to something he did not do.
The phone call is unfortunate, but never going to be decisive of guilt. It is you talking to his father who is a family friend. At best it is hearsay and will be given such weight. Given that you did not admit the allegation, nor deny it, I fail to see the relevance in any way. You also have an explanation as to why it was denied. It can be used in court.
You can be a witness to the defence - you say you were not there so are you able to provide a supporting witness to say where you were? Your wife can also be a witness, as can the girlfriend. I am intrigued about the medical evidence - given that the alleged victim says it was caused by a punch, yet the medical evidence says not likely. Who has given the expert medical evidence? Your son does not have to prove how the injury was caused - the prosecution have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that your son caused the injury in the way they say.
As for getting advice, at the PCMH (Plea and Case Management Hearing) which will be the first hearing at the Crown Court, your son will be represented by a barrister. It is at this stage you should be able to obtain some advice. Ideally you should have a conference with counsel beforehand and you should request this from your solicitor.
An early guilty plea will result in up to a third off his likely sentence. The only reason this has been mentioned is that it is standard. He should not plead guilty to something he did not do.
The phone call is unfortunate, but never going to be decisive of guilt. It is you talking to his father who is a family friend. At best it is hearsay and will be given such weight. Given that you did not admit the allegation, nor deny it, I fail to see the relevance in any way. You also have an explanation as to why it was denied. It can be used in court.
You can be a witness to the defence - you say you were not there so are you able to provide a supporting witness to say where you were? Your wife can also be a witness, as can the girlfriend. I am intrigued about the medical evidence - given that the alleged victim says it was caused by a punch, yet the medical evidence says not likely. Who has given the expert medical evidence? Your son does not have to prove how the injury was caused - the prosecution have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that your son caused the injury in the way they say.
As for getting advice, at the PCMH (Plea and Case Management Hearing) which will be the first hearing at the Crown Court, your son will be represented by a barrister. It is at this stage you should be able to obtain some advice. Ideally you should have a conference with counsel beforehand and you should request this from your solicitor.
Dear all,
Your answers are very supportive and I am feeling better by the minute.
Nosha - It seems this lad called my sons girlfriend and said my son had hit him, and also stated that he would see her at 8pm to pick her up. No mention of any serious injury at this point in time. I also beleive he head butted something like his steering wheel.
Barmaid - I felt awful when the phone call was mentioned as it looks as if I am hiding something (well that's how I feel). One comment I made when asked if my son had done the deed was ' Meet with me and I may have something to offer'. Doesn't sound good and it still worries me.
The medical evidence was supplied by the surgeon after he performed an operation. There is a tick sheet from another doctor which asks if the injury was consistent with the history and to provide a reason for the answer. The doctor has ticked 'yes' but given no reason. I feel the surgeons evidence carries more weight as he was able to see the fracture close-up and he is the one stating this was not caused by a punch.
Your answers are very supportive and I am feeling better by the minute.
Nosha - It seems this lad called my sons girlfriend and said my son had hit him, and also stated that he would see her at 8pm to pick her up. No mention of any serious injury at this point in time. I also beleive he head butted something like his steering wheel.
Barmaid - I felt awful when the phone call was mentioned as it looks as if I am hiding something (well that's how I feel). One comment I made when asked if my son had done the deed was ' Meet with me and I may have something to offer'. Doesn't sound good and it still worries me.
The medical evidence was supplied by the surgeon after he performed an operation. There is a tick sheet from another doctor which asks if the injury was consistent with the history and to provide a reason for the answer. The doctor has ticked 'yes' but given no reason. I feel the surgeons evidence carries more weight as he was able to see the fracture close-up and he is the one stating this was not caused by a punch.
-- answer removed --
Hi All,
This issue is still ongioing and the Crown Court date has been set for the 26th Jan (some 13 months after the allegation).
Our Barrister has advised my son to plead guilty as a 'damage limitation' act. He bases this purely on the fact that he cannot see why the other person would be willing to lie to the Police and then continue to lie in Court and he feels that the Jury will feel the same and find my son guilty. We argued that surely my son was innocent until proven guilty and that it was up to the prosecution to prove his guilt.
The Barristers point of view was that if my son was found guilty after trial by Jury, he would probably recieve an 18 month sentence. However he felt that by pleading guilty he would recieve 12 months or less and a good chance that it would be suspended.
We had a lenghty discussion during which both sides made their views clear. This resulted in our Barrister recommending that we change Barristers (albeit within the same law firm) and he felt we needed a second opinion.
Is it wise to change Barristers at this point?
Should my son plead gulity to limit the potential damages (and isn't this lieing on oath)?
Is our Barrister just looking after his own interests and doesn't want to defend a case he may loose?
Loosing faith in the British legal system very quickly.
This issue is still ongioing and the Crown Court date has been set for the 26th Jan (some 13 months after the allegation).
Our Barrister has advised my son to plead guilty as a 'damage limitation' act. He bases this purely on the fact that he cannot see why the other person would be willing to lie to the Police and then continue to lie in Court and he feels that the Jury will feel the same and find my son guilty. We argued that surely my son was innocent until proven guilty and that it was up to the prosecution to prove his guilt.
The Barristers point of view was that if my son was found guilty after trial by Jury, he would probably recieve an 18 month sentence. However he felt that by pleading guilty he would recieve 12 months or less and a good chance that it would be suspended.
We had a lenghty discussion during which both sides made their views clear. This resulted in our Barrister recommending that we change Barristers (albeit within the same law firm) and he felt we needed a second opinion.
Is it wise to change Barristers at this point?
Should my son plead gulity to limit the potential damages (and isn't this lieing on oath)?
Is our Barrister just looking after his own interests and doesn't want to defend a case he may loose?
Loosing faith in the British legal system very quickly.
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