Refugees In 1930S-40S - Any Lessons For Today's Migration Dilemma?

[Mosaic]

I'm wondering what's to be learned from history that might help clarify thinking and planning for dealing with the current migration crisis in Europe.
How did 'final destination' countries cope?
I have heard from descendants that the repatriation camps were very unpopular, and escaping from these and doing your own thing seemed quite rife.
The sheer numbers of people displaced is quite astounding when you look:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_evacuation_and_expulsion (seems quite well-referenced)

What impact did this vast number of people have in the societies they entered? eg even in this dozy little northern town there was a Polish Club - but Polish immigrants of that time quickly settled and integrated.

And these migrants were 'coped with' at a time when Europe was on its arris, having endured two massive wars and an economic depression.

[Mosaic]

AOG - apparently in 'Operation Pied Piper' hosts of evacuee children from London, Liverpool etc were given a very basic allowance by government. It sounds like the same allowance was given to other displaced children's host families, eg the kindertranport children. But that doesn't account for the displaced or refugee adults or families that arrived, so I'm still searching for that one.

Hypognosis - that's interesting - well done that Pope guy, and I suppose he's got a few spare rooms going himself! ;) But seriously, it's the act of Christian charity isn't it, that he's emphasising. Good feller.

[Mosaic]

Retro - mums are the ones you ask about sex and babymaking stuff. Which is what the GI coloured gentlemen were often -erm - 'well appreciated' for, at a time when healhty strapping blokes from the neighbourhood had all been drafted.
Why would I want to call you names? Can you for two minutes get away from it being all about you?

[Mosaic]

AOG - prefabs - what a totally brilliant idea! And that would also help families who're struggling to pay rent n mortgages now!
I think this could be a good solution.

[anotheoldgit]

Mosaic

There were a few mosques in Britain in the 1940s

Actually 4 in London and the South East, and 1 in Liverpool.

/// So you are incorrect to state that GIs were the first black people seen by British (you mean white British) children. ///

They were by the majority of white British people, although at that time living in a large city, I never saw one, and the only Brown skinned person was a chap who came round the houses selling rugs.

/// Incidentally those black GIs were really quite popular with the ladies. Ask your mum why. ///

They were only popular with a certain class of 'lady' and those who went with them were very much frowned upon by the community, that is the way it was back then.

The Black GIs, were also known to create much trouble and disturbance wherever they went, pubs dances etc. and white 'snowdrops' (US Military Police, known as such because they wore white steel helmets) could not touch them, they had their own Black 'snowdrops', who with a couple or few whacks with their night sticks, soon had them under control and accommodated in the back of their Jeep or paddy wagon.

[retrocop]

Thanks for that clarification aog. There certainly were NOT 3 million muslims in the UK in the 1940s and Black faces WERE unusual.Shirley Bassey was talk of the Valleys because there was a "Blackess" down in Tiger Bay.
I do not consider this site is about me but I would like Mosaic to explain who is accused of name calling. I was trying to give a positive contribution but I do not appreciate rudeness and false accusations.

[Mosaic]

That's quite funny retro, you're usually straight in boots first with your opinions and put-downs. I guess your actually being ironic, so I'll chuckle along with you. BTW putting things in capital letters doesn't make them empirical facts. If you read the thread, nobody at any point claimed 3 million muslims lived in the UK in the 1940s.
I don't apologise for other people's delusions but maybe you might apologise for attempting to hijack the thread.
The point remains from the contributions made by others, using personal recollection or links to credible information, that at a time of extreme economic deprivation many 'extra mouths' were brought into Britain and her territories. This surely has some light to throw on how we might choose to act now.

[Mosaic]

AOG - sure, coloured people were fewer, but many people had seen coloured and black people.

Much of the aggro with the black GIs came from the jealousy and prejudice of their white colleagues, who came from a segregated society and couldn't understand why blacks were allowed in bars frequented by whites, and were allowed to talk to white women.
I'm not sure I agree that going out with a black man was always the mark of a *** - round my home town, going out with a Yank was, whether black or white.
But that's all only 'on topic' if we relate it to how our daughters and grandaughters might be viewed for dating Syrian lads.

[Mosaic]

I winder why the word for a wilfully fallen woman is a swear?
As in the notable Restoration play by John Ford, 'Tis pity she's a ***'.

Not a swear, surely?

Here's a link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Tis_Pity_She's_a_Whore

[Playbill]

I know a Jewish man in his eighties who was on a Kindertransport. He gives talks and tells how he last saw his parents and older sister at Vienna railway station as they waved him off to Britain when he was ten years old. He ended up in Newcastle on Tyne with a Christian family who he says treated him well but had little knowledge of his religion or culture. He arrived in the country only able to speak German and had to quickly get to grips with English. When asked about his parents, sister and the rest of his extended family he simply replies that they were all murdered in the camps by the Nazis and he is was the only one to survive. He tells this with little emotion but what he feels inside is hard to imagine.

[mikey4444]

Interesting and poignant story Playbill. We can't imagine what it must have been like for him. Without the charity and goodwill of the British people, he wouldn't be here today. Lets hope we can extend the same charity to any new refugees that come to our shores.

[naomi24]

Firstly, unlike many of the people coming to Europe now, the Jews of the 1940s were genuine refugees. Secondly, with this influx we are looking at a very different culture, one that won’t integrate as the Jews did, so no, I don’t think there are lessons to be learnt from the past.

[bazwillrun]

like Ive already said, Jews to this day still only number 300,000

these people will hit that figure in no time, look how all the otheres we let in have turned into 10s of millions....

[naomi24]

If we want to learn lessons we should look to recent history.

[anotheoldgit]

Mosaic

/// If you read the thread, nobody at any point claimed 3 million muslims lived in the UK in the 1940s. ///

And retrocop never said that they did, he was merely stating a fact, that there were not 3 million Muslims living in the UK in the 1940s

[Retrochic]

retrocop -you should know by now that on AB. to be accused of 'name calling' and 'insulting' is circumlocution for ' I have no other valid argument in this debate'

[retrocop]

With that attitude it is a surprise anyone can bother to offer some input to her so called debate. She certainly knows how to kill her own Post stone dead in the water.

[Mosaic]

Not so Rantycop. Plenty of grown-ups have said interesting and intelligent things, using big words and not linking to the Daily Mail.
Even AOG, who hides his skills behind red-top quotations, contributed positively and I believe was consequently awarded best answer.
Which is, IMHO, intelligent debate. Not slanging, not 'I said therefore it is', and avoiding the slightly daft use of capital letters and the dreaded // // to prove any kind of point.
I know it's a man thing, but bigger ain't better. We got two pages of reet good input despite you trying very hard to derail it early on.
Hey ho. Look forward to your next words of wisdom, seeking to find a feasible and fair set of propositions for Europe's dilemma. And don't be bitter about not always being right, or even clever.

[Peter Pedant]

The huge population shifts obviously have a resonance
also I note from a letter in the Times today, this occurred 370 AD ( no, not 1370 AD ) where the Roman General instituted a swap of a dog for a slave to the immigrant population ( the upshot being that the immigrants revolted defeated the General and his army and THAT was the end of the western empire ) - you know I am sure we discussed this on AB a year or so ago as the Latin text is ambiguous and s/o was asking if there really was a dog-slave parity swap

Other differences - lots of the population didnt want repatriation - one Pole walked from Trst ( Trieste ) to Bridport and had fought in the Soviet Army and then the German Army [ oo bloody hell - why arent you dead ? I asked ]

The Poles assimilated very quickly - none of this I must be free to wear a niqab crop we see nowadays - and a lot of the Poles had fought very bravely for King George

alot were dumped back - the Volga Germans who had been in Russia since Catherine the Great's time were told just to go back. Czech Germans were as well ( dumped at the border )

lots were deprived of their nationality ( displaced persons ) which was such a problem, ya can't do it now ( hence all the fol-de-rol of confiscating passports because numerous treaties from 1945 guarantee a nationality

and finally - prefabs were for bomb damage and not for refugees
so rare that they are listed buildings ( some at sarehole mill Brum )

[Mosaic]

Well remembered abou the dogmeat scandal PP - we indeed debated it.
Good points about the longer term fate of many of the people shunted about by the war.
The difficulty with disappearing and reinventing yourself must be a big drawback now, and I believe arriving without any id papers has been a favoured route in recent years.......
Were prefabs only for bomb damage? Weren't they also used to bridge the gap caused by the postwar housing shortage? and they were used in schools as well, many a new classroom was a prefab, built to ast 15 years and being used for 40-plus.
I agree with your point about variable rates of assimilation, and I believe technology, as well as extremist views, is partly responsible. In the past kids had to assimilate to access pop music, films, and TV. Now it's all available 24/7 in any language you fancy.