Medical Opinion

[toltol]

My Father had a second stroke about 12 days ago my concerns are around the care he"s receiving in hospital. This time he was not put on any water (drip) for three days, he's now receiving water but intermittent. Yesterday he was on 83 mlph, today he got nothing until this evening, family were asking for it all day but it took them until tonight to put the cannula back in.
The stroke was 11 days ago and he's not yet been given any food, he's getting weak and we are really concerned. The doctor came on Friday morning and said an NG tube should be fitted but this has not happened as apparently the dietician did not stipulate how much food should go in so the staff are powerless to act until he/she returns and gives direction. It all just seems totally inept and we are very worried about him. Last time this happened (six years ago) it took them five days to give him water and about four weeks to give him any food (NG tube).

[Eve]

Can you contact the PALS office, there should be one at the hospital.

Being left without proper food and water, especially in these temperatures and someone so vulnerable, is unacceptable care.

[boxtops]

Don't just wait for something to happen - start making your voices heard. This isn't acceptable.

[gness]

As Eve says, contact PALS now and for god's sake keep making a fuss, and more fuss. I have been in the same position and there comes a time when being nice and reasonable just does not work. Good luck. x

[tonyav]

Go to the nurses station and start bawling and shouting.

[toltol]

Thank you, unfortunately, the hospital is in Ireland so no PALS.
We are making a fuss but they are ignoring us.
After last time, which was truly shocking, (we ended up sitting 24 hr vigil to try and make sure he wasn't put at further risk by them.) What is ridiculous is that we are now forced into doing our best to try and keep him hydrated and fed in a semi underhand way, but he's sleepy with a weak swallow. Some of the nurses have comented that they are disgusted and know what we're doing and have sanctioned it but this all seems completely ridiculous in a modern country. We're operating on the odds that without food and water he'll definitely die, if we feed, he might get complications but at least he stands a chance.

[toltol]

Does anyone have any medical training?
I know a stroke is a traumatic injury to the brain but is it usual to withdraw food and water and how does this affect recovery. Are we doing the wrong thing?

[pixie373]

No. He needs food and fluids. I should think the biggest risk is choking, if he's not able to swallow properly, or aspiration (ending up in his lungs by mistake). I agree with the others. Make a big fuss!

[jamesnan]

It sounds a bit to me like the Liverpool Pathway, where care is being withheld, because someone has decided he is perhaps too ill to carry on. This happened to my aunt who was in hospital with cancer, and even though everyone shouted and tried to get help, nothing was actually done even though they said it would be.
Shout, shout and shout again.

[Sharingan]

On top of making an ENORMOUS fuss, give them a deadline to start hydrating him and say that unless it is done by then you will start legal action and be bringing a journalist back with you to see the shocking state of affairs inj their hospital. One thing anyone who is not doing their job properly is terrified of is publicity about it. dopn't stop making a fuss, now is not the time to be too polite.

[toltol]

That's what we think but I thought we were supposed to get some choice in this!?! The other thing about the asessments the doctors make is that they are not always right. Last time he had a stroke they said it was massive and he's never recover and if he survived he'd have no quality of life. They gave him no food for weeks and no phisio for the entire seven weeks he was in hospital, the phisiotherapist there said he's never walk because she could get him to sit up straight. We fought and argued with them and eventually they agreed to transfer him to a stoke unit. The day they got him there he sat up at a table and fed himself and was walking within a week. Here we are again in the same hospital with the same prognosis and the same consultants and phisiotherapist....My father has already spoken to us, moved the limbs they say he can't and since we've been giving him water and food, he's much more alert able to stay awake for 1 1/2 hours at a time. It's like the medics are seeing what they want to see and it doesn't matter how he improves they will only accept their original prognosis....very frightening. I am left wondering just how many thousands must die like this in hospitals whilst recieving mecial 'care'. How do we make them see different, they believe they're right and we are ignorant and insignificant?

[toltol]

Thank you all for advice I know is right.
I think we're going to have to get really difficult. X

[Rosetta]

Are you in Eire

[Ann]

I really feel for you toltol, I had to make myself tremendously unpopular with the nurses when my Mum was in hospital for 10 weeks after 2 brain haemorrhages in quick succession 16 years ago. She was literally being starved to death as they brought her food (sausage and chips, i ask you!) when she was flat on her back and couldn't move, they then removed it from her tray table telling me "She didn't want her dinner!" This happened for a week and I then FLEW! I demanded to see the clinical director (or some title I made up) told them I had the papers on them, stacked up a pile of Complan cartons on her bedside table, tried to feed her myself but was scared she would choke. I pleaded with them to put a feeding tube in to feed intravenously and it took another week before they suddenly agreed, as surprise upon surprise she was getting so weak they thought it MAY be lack of nutrition. Hallelujah! Everytime I went in I shouted at the lazy nurses and the ones which were nice tried to help me but they couldn't be there full time.
So please shout and shout! I used to go and rout the staff out of the nurses station where they say with feet up on the table playing cards! Seems like nothing has changed in 16 years, I despair! But Mum did survive and will be 90 soon!

[toltol]

I live in UK but went over as soon as we heard about dad, I was in Ireland until yesterday, I had to come back but am so worried about this...

Dad is in the Waterford hospital...dreadful place.
OK going to speak to my mum in the morning and tell them they need to start shouting, I'll tell her to ring the radio station and the papers! x

[Rosetta]

The Liverpool Pathway is a UK initiative and, as far as I am aware, does not relate to S Ireland where your father is. Raise your concerns with his medical team, I am sure they will take notice

[toltol]

Thanks everyone, esp Headwreck.

I'll ring the radio and papaers from here if I have to...