Self Gratification?

[kazzee69]

My friend (the.dr) believes that people only do things for a reason! He thinks that people who do things like charity work only do it to feel good about themselves.. I don't believe this. He seems to believe that on a subconcious level everyone does something to gain something from it! Does anyone agree with him?

[CiderMonkey]

i suppose it's a bit of both really. When I have done work to help charities I do it to help them out. That would be my main thought.  But, I must admit, that I do feel good about myself also. I am happy to have helped out.

[Clanad]

If your friends statement is true, how does he account for altruism?  Seen only in the human species, altruism, at it's ultimate, is the free giving of one's life for another.  What possible reward can one expect in that action?  Often, the decision to save another at the cost of one's own life is a split-second decision, with no time for reflection on possible gain...

[Xollob]

If I stand up for an elderly lady on a bus, I feel good. If I don't stand up, I feel bad. And if the lady were to suffer a serious injury due to my not standing up, I would feel very bad. Is my standing up altruism or egoism? Probably a bit of both.

Clanad, are you sure altruism is limited to humans? What about dogs risking their lives to protect their master? Or this Wikipedia article on Non-human animal ethics? Much can be explained by reciprocity, but the dolphins?

[Clanad]

Personally, Xollob, I think most of the examples given in the Wikipedia site are instinctual.  In most cases, where the animal displaying what humans would interpret as altruism, it's likely the caring action would cease if the animal had to flee for its life. We've seen this, have we not, in the cases where predators have captured a young animal and the fleeter mother or rest of the herd can only watch from a distance as the young prey is devoured.  Whereas, in humans the action is often carried through to its ultimate with the death or at least severe injury to the one providing the care...

[jno]

I'm not sure this isn't stating the obvious. Some things we do because we have to - it's our job, it's the law, whatever. With anything else, though (and this is what the.dr is talking about, I assume), we are free to do it or not. So of course we do the things that make us feel good - why would we do something that made us feel bad?

[Kay]

Following a breakdown I started work in a charity shop to help me get back to mixing with other people. I certainly did'nt do this to feel good about myself,I did it for MY benefit and my family's. Enjoyed it though.

[RevShirls]

I agree with the first part - that people generally do things for a reason - but I disagree that it is always for self-gratification.Of course there are people who do good things for others just to feel good about themselves or because they want thanks, praise and acknowledgement. I do however believe that there are others who do it just because it is in their nature to do so or because they follow various principles in life ("Do to others... and all that). Others do it out of a sense of duty and as mentioned above - sometimes it's a mixture of all these things.

[jake-the-peg]

I like your friends debating position. It doesn't matter how altruistics somebody's action is he can always claim they were performing that action to feel good about themselves even if it was at a deeply subconcious level.

I suggest you ask him what proof he would require to disprove his proposition. Hopefully that'd lead him to see the logical problem with it 

[RevShirls]

You've obviously been reading Karl Popper, jake-the-peg. Always an important question to ask.

[jake-the-peg]

Been a while since I read Popper but yes :C)