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Alcoholism, Prescription Drugs, And A Sedentary Lifestyle
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An almost totally reclusive, overweight 66 year old woman who has never suffered a serious physical illness, taking prescription drugs (for the past 40 years) for panic attacks, drinking a bottle of vodka a day, and rarely moving from a lying position on the sofa. How long do you think that can continue before it has serious repercussions upon her physical health?
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@jennyjoan
//Even a depressed person or other adjective persons would try and do a little something in their lives. //
Clinical depression can leave the sufferer practically immobile, with lavatory visits being about the only thing providing sufficient 'drive'. Wrecking the only comfortable place in their shrunken universe would be the final straw. Basic animal instinct at work, there. There is every risk that they'd die if their building was on fire.
// For the life she is living she may as well be dead.//
Isn't that what people threatening suicide tend to say? Or is that just the screenwriter's cliché?
//Even a depressed person or other adjective persons would try and do a little something in their lives. //
Clinical depression can leave the sufferer practically immobile, with lavatory visits being about the only thing providing sufficient 'drive'. Wrecking the only comfortable place in their shrunken universe would be the final straw. Basic animal instinct at work, there. There is every risk that they'd die if their building was on fire.
// For the life she is living she may as well be dead.//
Isn't that what people threatening suicide tend to say? Or is that just the screenwriter's cliché?
Clinical depression is a very misunderstood illness. I would never dare to criticise a person with a physical illness for being ill yet people readily manage to make people who have reached the lowest point in their miserable existence worse by their comments.
I don't know if this woman naomi is talking about is depressed or just closing down. The human brain is a powerful machine and can twist your own thoughts and the less a person actually does (any activity) the less that they are physically able to.
I don't know if this woman naomi is talking about is depressed or just closing down. The human brain is a powerful machine and can twist your own thoughts and the less a person actually does (any activity) the less that they are physically able to.
"...The wonderful love of a beautiful maid & the love of a staunch true man,
and the love of a baby unafraid, has existed since time began.
But the greatest love, the love of love even greater than that of a mother
is the true and passionate infinite love, of one drunken sod for another..."
Naomi this might help you feel less guilty. We spent a fortune trying on sobriety for my OH to no avail. But I still love & miss him.
and the love of a baby unafraid, has existed since time began.
But the greatest love, the love of love even greater than that of a mother
is the true and passionate infinite love, of one drunken sod for another..."
Naomi this might help you feel less guilty. We spent a fortune trying on sobriety for my OH to no avail. But I still love & miss him.
@naomi
I think the biggest clue you gave was about her professional position. A job confers status, daily involvement in decision-making which makes a difference to those under their unbrella of influence, plus daily social interaction with colleagues, who may double as friends. Having all that "surgically removed" by retirement can come as a severe blow to a retiree. To a top professional, maybe even more so.
No doubt retirement planning leaflets may have passed under their nose but, the smarter you are, the greater the tendency to think one knows best and reject external advice, out of hand i.e. not even bothering to read the leaflet.
Busy minds and "need to be needed" personality types need to plan ahead and get involved in volunteer work, clubs and societies: - a "pseudo job". That's what keeps them ticking over, into their 90s. Like Her Madge, for instance.
I think the biggest clue you gave was about her professional position. A job confers status, daily involvement in decision-making which makes a difference to those under their unbrella of influence, plus daily social interaction with colleagues, who may double as friends. Having all that "surgically removed" by retirement can come as a severe blow to a retiree. To a top professional, maybe even more so.
No doubt retirement planning leaflets may have passed under their nose but, the smarter you are, the greater the tendency to think one knows best and reject external advice, out of hand i.e. not even bothering to read the leaflet.
Busy minds and "need to be needed" personality types need to plan ahead and get involved in volunteer work, clubs and societies: - a "pseudo job". That's what keeps them ticking over, into their 90s. Like Her Madge, for instance.
@naomi
Okay. I added "is wealthy" and "is clever" from your 09:04 Tue post and got 5.
It partially answered my next question which was going to be about the timing of the change of behaviour pattern. If I have the sequence right, it was
1. Normal, engaged, kids/grandkids visiting regularly (or she visits them)
2. Starts using Facebook.
3. Makes Friends with remote person who is not part of her real-world life.
4. Becomes more withdrawn
5. Drinking more
6. Unfriended by remote person
7. Yet more withdrawn
8. Husband retires
Now, if the husband being home all the time, which is a large change in the household dynamic, caused little or no perceptible change in her degenerated behaviour, then the unfriending looks more like the final straw but that doesn't make it the trigger point for the start of the slide.
A long-winded way of saying that your instincts were probably correct and, barring new discoveries about goings on coincident with starting on Facebook, then it's the Facebook activity which started the slide.
I've heard opinions expressed that Facebook is a glorified one-upmanship contest "look at me and how fabulous my life is and my adorable family". This may have been how I landed on that page about "narcissistic supply". If one can get peer approval, without rising from the sofa, why go to all the effort of stepping out the front door, where you can only extract approval from a tiny subset of your reams of FB 'frenz'?
Zuckerberg's original design was to serve yuppie fraternity pals, so they could compare girlfriends, shout the odds, brag about their burgeoning careers and so on. If your life just doesn't measure up to the shiny, happy, people, you are going to end up down in the dumps.
That's obviously not applicable to a well off person, like her but I'm trying to say that constantly comparing one's life and achievements to others who are having a better time of it than you is corrosive to the 'soul'.
Note, I am just exploring ideas. They will likely be wrong but it's a process of elimination. The professional therapist has been tried and their opinions dismissed; what chance do we amateurs have?
I'm curious whether NHS counselling has progressed beyond the 1 hour per 6 months that I was offered (~15 years ago) I wanted them to 'fix' me so I could go back to work, before my sick pay ran out but I was low priority, compared to the local addicts, bridge jumpers and other, fully wrecked individuals. We now have increasing victims of domestic and sexual abuse, trafficking, PTSD, war refugees so how anyone else gets a look in, I cannot imagine. We need more trained counsellors, full stop.
If you could spare the time, would it be constructive to visit and just observe her routine for an hour? Would she just blank you and do stuff on the computer or would she put it away until after you leave?
Okay. I added "is wealthy" and "is clever" from your 09:04 Tue post and got 5.
It partially answered my next question which was going to be about the timing of the change of behaviour pattern. If I have the sequence right, it was
1. Normal, engaged, kids/grandkids visiting regularly (or she visits them)
2. Starts using Facebook.
3. Makes Friends with remote person who is not part of her real-world life.
4. Becomes more withdrawn
5. Drinking more
6. Unfriended by remote person
7. Yet more withdrawn
8. Husband retires
Now, if the husband being home all the time, which is a large change in the household dynamic, caused little or no perceptible change in her degenerated behaviour, then the unfriending looks more like the final straw but that doesn't make it the trigger point for the start of the slide.
A long-winded way of saying that your instincts were probably correct and, barring new discoveries about goings on coincident with starting on Facebook, then it's the Facebook activity which started the slide.
I've heard opinions expressed that Facebook is a glorified one-upmanship contest "look at me and how fabulous my life is and my adorable family". This may have been how I landed on that page about "narcissistic supply". If one can get peer approval, without rising from the sofa, why go to all the effort of stepping out the front door, where you can only extract approval from a tiny subset of your reams of FB 'frenz'?
Zuckerberg's original design was to serve yuppie fraternity pals, so they could compare girlfriends, shout the odds, brag about their burgeoning careers and so on. If your life just doesn't measure up to the shiny, happy, people, you are going to end up down in the dumps.
That's obviously not applicable to a well off person, like her but I'm trying to say that constantly comparing one's life and achievements to others who are having a better time of it than you is corrosive to the 'soul'.
Note, I am just exploring ideas. They will likely be wrong but it's a process of elimination. The professional therapist has been tried and their opinions dismissed; what chance do we amateurs have?
I'm curious whether NHS counselling has progressed beyond the 1 hour per 6 months that I was offered (~15 years ago) I wanted them to 'fix' me so I could go back to work, before my sick pay ran out but I was low priority, compared to the local addicts, bridge jumpers and other, fully wrecked individuals. We now have increasing victims of domestic and sexual abuse, trafficking, PTSD, war refugees so how anyone else gets a look in, I cannot imagine. We need more trained counsellors, full stop.
If you could spare the time, would it be constructive to visit and just observe her routine for an hour? Would she just blank you and do stuff on the computer or would she put it away until after you leave?
@naomi
This is one of those tricky decisions where both options are undesirable or painful.
Either you (excuse the euphemism) "let nature take its course" OR
you regard her current trajectory as liable to harm herself, in which case she could be sectioned.
The first option gives her freedom of choice and those around her *could* be regarded as blameless. I stress "could" because it's a matter of opinion and, after the event, someone could cry foul (i.e. accuse hubby/family of neglect).
The second option has unknown outcome. Alcohol withdrawal, in this case from years of chronic consumption, needs proper management. Care home costs impact the entire family, so it is down to her husband how much of the rest of the family to involve in the decision-making process.
And never mind the costs - just the idea of sectioning could cause rifts if not all of them agree. The sad part is the only one who gets no say in the matter is her.
This is one of those tricky decisions where both options are undesirable or painful.
Either you (excuse the euphemism) "let nature take its course" OR
you regard her current trajectory as liable to harm herself, in which case she could be sectioned.
The first option gives her freedom of choice and those around her *could* be regarded as blameless. I stress "could" because it's a matter of opinion and, after the event, someone could cry foul (i.e. accuse hubby/family of neglect).
The second option has unknown outcome. Alcohol withdrawal, in this case from years of chronic consumption, needs proper management. Care home costs impact the entire family, so it is down to her husband how much of the rest of the family to involve in the decision-making process.
And never mind the costs - just the idea of sectioning could cause rifts if not all of them agree. The sad part is the only one who gets no say in the matter is her.
Hypognosis, referring back to your post at 21:02 Wed:
She has never really behaved ‘normally’. Her panic attacks have always been a factor in what she felt comfortable with, or more accurately perhaps, in what she didn’t want to do, but despite that until a few years ago she was very well engaged with family and friends. Since then she has, at the last moment, abandoned many planned social gatherings, theatre trips and holidays abroad – even though the latter have been paid for. It has been known for her family, having happened upon a street cam in some far flung city, to wave to her, she waving back from the safety of her sofa.
I don’t think the ‘unfriending’ was instrumental to her current condition, but her reaction to it was indicative of her increasing irrationality. Your assessment of her attitude to Facebook appears to be accurate. Reading her input there, one would never guess there is a problem. She posts pictures of the family, wishing them happy birthdays, etc., and she chats away merrily, telling all her ‘friends’ how much she’s looking forward to visiting the States, or Japan, or wherever. In reality she dwells on the past (never on the happy bits), she is critical of everything and everyone, and she displays what I can only describe as a ‘victim’ mentality. I thought at one time that her husband’s retirement might cure the problem. I wondered whether her mental condition might have emanated from the loneliness of her self-imposed isolation. I had visions of them living a lovely, full life once he retired. Sadly that didn’t happen. Nothing changed.
Her appointments with the psychologist - who she calls a 'counsellor' - are I believe, fortnightly, the most recent lasting two hours. In order to give me the impression that she is actually ‘going out’, she speaks as though she visits him, but she doesn’t. She has home visits. Likewise, she tells her GP that she is going away on holiday – but her flight tickets are always unused. I don’t know why her husband bothers to book for her really. He knows full well that when the time comes she won’t go but I suppose he lives in hope.
Hospital admission has been suggested but she is terrified of that. However, I think that may well happen at some time in the future – and I don’t believe that any member of the family would object. I recently asked her daughter, who was very close to her mother before all this, why she doesn’t phone her, or attempt to visit her. She said because she never knows what’s going to greet her and she doesn’t want her own young children ‘exposed to that’. She said ‘my mother died years ago’. Her sadness was palpable.
She has never really behaved ‘normally’. Her panic attacks have always been a factor in what she felt comfortable with, or more accurately perhaps, in what she didn’t want to do, but despite that until a few years ago she was very well engaged with family and friends. Since then she has, at the last moment, abandoned many planned social gatherings, theatre trips and holidays abroad – even though the latter have been paid for. It has been known for her family, having happened upon a street cam in some far flung city, to wave to her, she waving back from the safety of her sofa.
I don’t think the ‘unfriending’ was instrumental to her current condition, but her reaction to it was indicative of her increasing irrationality. Your assessment of her attitude to Facebook appears to be accurate. Reading her input there, one would never guess there is a problem. She posts pictures of the family, wishing them happy birthdays, etc., and she chats away merrily, telling all her ‘friends’ how much she’s looking forward to visiting the States, or Japan, or wherever. In reality she dwells on the past (never on the happy bits), she is critical of everything and everyone, and she displays what I can only describe as a ‘victim’ mentality. I thought at one time that her husband’s retirement might cure the problem. I wondered whether her mental condition might have emanated from the loneliness of her self-imposed isolation. I had visions of them living a lovely, full life once he retired. Sadly that didn’t happen. Nothing changed.
Her appointments with the psychologist - who she calls a 'counsellor' - are I believe, fortnightly, the most recent lasting two hours. In order to give me the impression that she is actually ‘going out’, she speaks as though she visits him, but she doesn’t. She has home visits. Likewise, she tells her GP that she is going away on holiday – but her flight tickets are always unused. I don’t know why her husband bothers to book for her really. He knows full well that when the time comes she won’t go but I suppose he lives in hope.
Hospital admission has been suggested but she is terrified of that. However, I think that may well happen at some time in the future – and I don’t believe that any member of the family would object. I recently asked her daughter, who was very close to her mother before all this, why she doesn’t phone her, or attempt to visit her. She said because she never knows what’s going to greet her and she doesn’t want her own young children ‘exposed to that’. She said ‘my mother died years ago’. Her sadness was palpable.
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