Can People change?

[missjef]

following on from my last question.. do you believe that people can change after they have committed a serious crime? eg. murder, rape..
i personally do not believe people can change, because i think that people who have it in them to do stuff like that will have it in them for a lifetime and once the switch has gone on in them then they cant turn it off again, no matter how much therapy they have.
My friends have different opinions and believe that people should be given a second chance but i do not believe this is right in cases of serious crimes.

after reading about quite a few serial killers, it seems that any that got released from the institution they were put in then went straight on to kill their next victim - some didnt even manage to leave the gates before they killed someone!

what are your opinions?

[zipadeedodah]

I think it'd be very rare to find someone who genuinely changes after they have committed a serious crime. I think it is actually possible, but doesn't happen often.

You read all the time about murderers/rapists etc who are let out and reoffend within a very short time. I'm not sure how you can ever really tell whether someone has changed or not, but I'm sure most are let out when they would still be considered a danger to the public.

[dan no1]

i dont think sick individuals like that should have the chance to change. i dont even think that they should go to prison. for murderers, it should be a life for a life. bring back to death penalty, but i dont think they should be waiting years to die, becuase that is not a punishment. it should be in court, get sentenced, and they next day, death. i think this also for rapist and paedophiles. they may not have killed someone, but they have ruined a life and killed that person inside.

[missjef]

i totally agree with you dan

[jno]

almost nobody kills a second time (most murders take place between people who know each other). It's generally only in the movies that people make a career out of it. When it does happen, it often seems to turn out that the killer has mental health problems; and I have problems with the idea of punishing the mentally ill.

[dan no1]

i dont understand why the government dont just do it. this country is too soft

[dan no1]

in what i say above, i dont include mentally ill people

[missjef]

jno there is and has been quite a large number of serial killers in the US - though maybe not so many over here in the UK.
The problem with the Mental health thing is that how do you know for sure that they are 'insane' people who claim insanity get lesser sentences, and they could also put it on for this reason. i still think that if someone has mental health problems and has killed someone they should not be put back out into the public as they will be a danger to themselves and to others. i dont think any amount of therapy can change that.

[dan no1]

...if proven they are mentally disturbed

[missjef]

dan can i ask you what you would like to see done to mentally ill people? do you think they should undergo therapy then be re-released? as in some cases of this they have just gone on to kill as soon as they have been realeased.

[dan no1]

i dont they should be released, maybe go in a mental home for the rest of their lives. there is absolutley no excuse for what they did.

[raysparx1]

By Serious crime,would you include armed robbery ? I have known a few naughty lads,involved in similar and they have changed,they are now peaceful, quiet, inoffensive people that work and pay taxes that happened to get involved in things that spiralled out of control, Rapists and cold blooded murderers are a different matter, I do not know if they could change, most of them are scum.

[noxlumos]

Although not a murderer, rapist or any sort of child abuser, I was convicted of a serious violent crime ( GBH) and sentenced to 7 years. Prison certainly didn't change me, in fact if anything upon my release I would have been almost pre-destined to carry out further violent crime as I was so full of anger and hatred ( prison is NOT a cushy holiday camp a la Daily Mail). I decided not to. I decided to make my life what I had always wanted it to be, and I have. I have a beautiful wife, lovely family, successful businesses and I employ as many ex offender's as I possibly can, because I believe very strongly that most people ( murderers included in some cases) can be worthwhile people who live good and useful lives. Things are not as black and white as you suppose and most murderers as jno so rightly says DO NOT re-offend, because they murder for a very particular reason and usually people well known to them. Serial killers with a psychiatric disorder are obviously not candidates for re-integration into society, but people can change and do so every day, very often for the better.

[raysparx1]

nox very well put as usual, you have a lot of wisdom.

[missjef]

ray im not sure, armed robbery is a serious crime, though in my opinion not as serious as murder, rape or peaodophilia (sorry about spelling). I do think that people who commit armed robbery are more likely to change themselves for the better, unlike other people lets say rapists or child abusers.

noxlumos its good to hear that you went down a good path for a happy life when leaving prison.
I know *some* murderers do change, but can you ever be 100% sure that one day they wont just flip and kill again? if they've done it once whose to say they wont do it again.
where do you stand on rapists and peadophiles? do you believe that they can change?
Also if it were someone who you loved who was killed would you be able to believe that the killer could change for the better and turn their life around?
Would you employ someone who had killed someone who you knew? (maybe not a family member, but just someone you knew, say a friend or acquaintance?).

[dilf]

people do change in all aspects of life .achoholics reform ,smokers quit, people find god every day then again many people like george best forinstance dont .

how would you feel dan if your son/brother was wrongly convicted and executed the next day.

what about maxine carr should she get the chop?

[dilf]

p.s seems to me that noxy has it right. life aint black and white

[missjef]

dilf you do make a good point, however smokers quitting and alcoholics going off drink is a lot different from changing someone who is a rapist and peadophiles.

[missjef]

life isnt black and white, i understand that every situation is different..
i just think that rapists & peadophiles should not have the right to change themselves and be let back into society, they dont deserve that.
Murder is different for every case, but child murderers and premeditated murderers should not be allowed back into the public in my opinion.

[dilf]

youve seen the arguments missjef so are you for or against. is a peadophile a immature 19 year old who sleeps with his 14 year old gf

jerry lee lewis married and babbied his 13 year old cousin i think, the dirty git but he stayed married for ever should he have hung

[Carakeel]

noxlumos, you are also very courageous to be so open about your past. Thank you for that. I congratulate you on changing your life around. Obviously, some criminals can and do change, but many also don�t. I think that those who have killed, raped, molested children should NEVER be let out again! Victims who have survived and who's perpetrators have been jailed will tell you that they live in constant fear of their tormentors being let out of prison, even just on a day release. That is all it takes for that person to re-offend and kill someone. Victims live a life sentence, so why should those who have inflicted such depravity, not do the same in real terms??? Why is a life sentence not exactly that? How can we say �Oh, he has worked on himself and become a nice guy again, so let�s forget the ongoing life sentence the family of his victim is living and give him a second chance�? If it were your child who had been raped or killed, would you want to see him walking the streets as a free man again? Would you feel safe with your grandchildren being on the streets, knowing that person was somewhere, possibly watching them? Do criminals who commit violent crimes, even if it is �only� battering someone or committing armed robbery, ever realise that in doing these things, they rob their victims of ever being able to lead a normal life again?