News4 mins ago
Nurses
80 Answers
I’m not being sarcastic and I’m not wishing to denigrate, but what do nurses actually do ?
Whilst I was in hospital, the nurses;
Took my blood pressure,
Took my temperature,
Changed my surgical stockings,
Changed my Saline drip,
Changed my bedding,
Administered injections,
Dealt with ‘bed-pan’ issues.
I had my medication given to me by specific, possibly senior, nurses.
I had my water-jug and meals brought to me by what appeared to be auxiliary staff or nurses.
Cleaning was by agency staff.
I was supremely grateful to each and every one of them for their kindness and care but it did set me thinking that I often hear about the hours of study, etc. that nurses are obliged to undertake.
However, none of the above activities seem to warrant such ‘study’; with a couple of hours instruction even I could become reasonably competent to perform them.
When it became apparent that there was a problem, the nurses were only able to alert a Doctor who then alerted a Surgeon who then alerted MY Surgeon. There was nothing ‘clinically’ that they could do without authority.
Would the wage-bill to the NHS be reduced if we were to revert back to the model of 50’s/60’s/70’s where nurses were enthusiastic and caring but essentially ‘non-medically trained’ ?
I’m sure that there is a bigger picture I am failing to see..............?
Whilst I was in hospital, the nurses;
Took my blood pressure,
Took my temperature,
Changed my surgical stockings,
Changed my Saline drip,
Changed my bedding,
Administered injections,
Dealt with ‘bed-pan’ issues.
I had my medication given to me by specific, possibly senior, nurses.
I had my water-jug and meals brought to me by what appeared to be auxiliary staff or nurses.
Cleaning was by agency staff.
I was supremely grateful to each and every one of them for their kindness and care but it did set me thinking that I often hear about the hours of study, etc. that nurses are obliged to undertake.
However, none of the above activities seem to warrant such ‘study’; with a couple of hours instruction even I could become reasonably competent to perform them.
When it became apparent that there was a problem, the nurses were only able to alert a Doctor who then alerted a Surgeon who then alerted MY Surgeon. There was nothing ‘clinically’ that they could do without authority.
Would the wage-bill to the NHS be reduced if we were to revert back to the model of 50’s/60’s/70’s where nurses were enthusiastic and caring but essentially ‘non-medically trained’ ?
I’m sure that there is a bigger picture I am failing to see..............?
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Planning the care given by junior / non qualified staff, assessing care needs, supervising the use of equipment especially where things like moving patients is concerned, being alert to drug reactions, liasing with other allied health professionals, teaching and training students/juniors, risk assessing, being able to walk into a room and spot the patient who isn't doing well even when there are no obvious signs, and knowing what to do until the medical team arrive knowing when sitting down and talking is better than calling a junior doctor, when junior doctors come onto the wards keeping them from making mistakes by supporting them too so they feel comfortable checking with more experienced members of the team and not losing face... talking to doctors on behalf of patients who 'don't like to ask' and explaining the response in plain language, making sure a patient who is dying doesn't die alone if at all possible, its a long list Jack...ad they never stop learning..the trick is the good ones do it in such a way that you'd never see them think about it...and that is only a normal ward...I won't try to tell you what you have to do if you are an intensive care nurse or in A&E
I agree Jack.
When my Uncle was in for 3 months the nurses spent most of their time at the nurses station. Me and my sister looked after him in shifts because if we didn't he would have starved to death.
He was left on the toilet for over an hour...!!
He got body lice while he was in...
And one of the nurses had the cheek to have a go at me for eating a carrot off his place. She regretted it when I pointed out that I was doing her job. Not just for him but the other patients in his bay, because it was easier for the other patients to ask me for what they needed instead of waiting for one of the nurses busy chatting with her colleagues...
Rant over..!!
When my Uncle was in for 3 months the nurses spent most of their time at the nurses station. Me and my sister looked after him in shifts because if we didn't he would have starved to death.
He was left on the toilet for over an hour...!!
He got body lice while he was in...
And one of the nurses had the cheek to have a go at me for eating a carrot off his place. She regretted it when I pointed out that I was doing her job. Not just for him but the other patients in his bay, because it was easier for the other patients to ask me for what they needed instead of waiting for one of the nurses busy chatting with her colleagues...
Rant over..!!
Understood, Rowan.
However, an awful lot of that seems to fall under the headings of 'natural intelligence' or 'common kindness/courtesy' rather than having to be learned from books or lectures.
I appreciate that 'specialist' areas require 'specialist training' but *generally* the ward-nurses, if you like, seem to be asked to become over-qualified for the roles they are actually able to perform.
(As I've said, I am grateful to them each and every one)
However, an awful lot of that seems to fall under the headings of 'natural intelligence' or 'common kindness/courtesy' rather than having to be learned from books or lectures.
I appreciate that 'specialist' areas require 'specialist training' but *generally* the ward-nurses, if you like, seem to be asked to become over-qualified for the roles they are actually able to perform.
(As I've said, I am grateful to them each and every one)
I can give you an answer...might cause some yelling. What I am going to say is factual and I know it of my own knowledge. I am a retired Occupational Therapist, my last job was part management, managing a mixed profession Community Rehab and Care team.
In 2001, the Royal College of Nursing chose Beverly Malone to be its General Secretary. She is a smart lady and very politically savvy and she made a solid job of raising the profile and importance of nurses at Government level. The push started towards Nurse practitioners, Nurse Consultants, Specialist Nurses, Modern Matrons and Community Matrons. All of these posts more highly trained and more highly paid. there was also a more general and less articulated message that all health facilities needed more nurses. Definite pressure was put on my PCT (Primary Care Trust) and also I infer, the local acute trusts, to train and recruit nurses and the specialist nursing posts, sadly at the expense of other professions and without proper consideration of the actual work that needs doing.
In 2001, the Royal College of Nursing chose Beverly Malone to be its General Secretary. She is a smart lady and very politically savvy and she made a solid job of raising the profile and importance of nurses at Government level. The push started towards Nurse practitioners, Nurse Consultants, Specialist Nurses, Modern Matrons and Community Matrons. All of these posts more highly trained and more highly paid. there was also a more general and less articulated message that all health facilities needed more nurses. Definite pressure was put on my PCT (Primary Care Trust) and also I infer, the local acute trusts, to train and recruit nurses and the specialist nursing posts, sadly at the expense of other professions and without proper consideration of the actual work that needs doing.
Nurses just like the rest of our overburdened Nhs are overstretched, overworked and underpaid so excuse some of their lack of enthusiasm, but saying that there are many that do the work with a cheerful smile and a spring in their step.
maybe the bottom line if you want topnotch treatment is to go high end private.
maybe the bottom line if you want topnotch treatment is to go high end private.
I had to lay absolutely flat to prevent the crippling headaches, etc. I was experiencing.
All my meals were brought in and the tray placed on the bed-table hovering above my chest - some days I could eat.........others I couldn't.
The tray was whisked away whether I had eaten anything or nothing - I wasn't offered any help, nor was an eye kept on my food consumption.
In 'the old days' ensuring that a patient was eating/drinking was a fundemental part of a nurses duties and vital in ensuring the recovery of the patient.
All my meals were brought in and the tray placed on the bed-table hovering above my chest - some days I could eat.........others I couldn't.
The tray was whisked away whether I had eaten anything or nothing - I wasn't offered any help, nor was an eye kept on my food consumption.
In 'the old days' ensuring that a patient was eating/drinking was a fundemental part of a nurses duties and vital in ensuring the recovery of the patient.
That's what they did to Paddy. The poor man couldn't move his arms. They put the food in front of him and whisked it away uneaten. That went on for 3 days before he told us. Then we went on feeding duties....doing their job..!
They mentioned to us that visiting times were in place. I mentioned to them that he wasn't being looked after so we will do it...thank you very much..!
They mentioned to us that visiting times were in place. I mentioned to them that he wasn't being looked after so we will do it...thank you very much..!
part two.
So now, at least in my part of the world, organisations have more qualified nurses than they actually need, but not enough pairs of hands to ensure good patient care. There used to be 3 community teams where I used to work. They all had a mixture of nurses, physios and OT's in supported by support staff who had basic skills in all 3 professions. The PCT was FORCED to employ and train nurses to be "Community Matrons" The documented plan for these was that they would directly support people living in their own homes ands in residential care who have complex nursing needs....however these nurses didn't come with additional funding so they have replaced the OT and physio team leaders. They haven't been trained for these jobs and the senior clinical support and management for the OTs and Physios has been lost. Additionally because they are now in management role they weren't trained for, they aren't carrying out the clinical role they were trained for.
So now, at least in my part of the world, organisations have more qualified nurses than they actually need, but not enough pairs of hands to ensure good patient care. There used to be 3 community teams where I used to work. They all had a mixture of nurses, physios and OT's in supported by support staff who had basic skills in all 3 professions. The PCT was FORCED to employ and train nurses to be "Community Matrons" The documented plan for these was that they would directly support people living in their own homes ands in residential care who have complex nursing needs....however these nurses didn't come with additional funding so they have replaced the OT and physio team leaders. They haven't been trained for these jobs and the senior clinical support and management for the OTs and Physios has been lost. Additionally because they are now in management role they weren't trained for, they aren't carrying out the clinical role they were trained for.
Hang on a minuite. You say they were performing the role of nurses but yet the description in your original post are the duties performed largely by auxiliaries. If you're unsure then the whols basis of your post is flawed.
I speak as the other half of somone who I saw qualify as a Nurse, became a Sister, Senior Sister and has since gone into management and I am fairly sure you are talking about non qualified nursing duties.
I speak as the other half of somone who I saw qualify as a Nurse, became a Sister, Senior Sister and has since gone into management and I am fairly sure you are talking about non qualified nursing duties.
A couple of years ago I had to stay overnight in hospital awaiting results of some tests. The poor lady in the next bed had had an operation that day, and was in some discomfort. Whenever she pressed the buzzer for attention the 3 nurses, doing bugger all but read and natter, argued as to whose turn it was to get off their arse and go see to her.
Thanks, woofgang.
That's rather what I thought.
When you are a patient you feel very vulnerable and powerless.
As Rowan says, seeing a smiling and friendly face.........exchanging a few words with a 'caring' person is worth more than gold.
I'm just not sure that inflating nurses qualifications or expectations benefits the 'end-user', in any way.
That's rather what I thought.
When you are a patient you feel very vulnerable and powerless.
As Rowan says, seeing a smiling and friendly face.........exchanging a few words with a 'caring' person is worth more than gold.
I'm just not sure that inflating nurses qualifications or expectations benefits the 'end-user', in any way.
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