ESA advice appreciated

[wolf63]

I have been in receipt of Incapacity Benefit since 2004. I filled out the ESA form a few weeks back and today have received a letter from Job Centre Plus.

It says that I am go get ESA from 4 April (at least they are not stopping it) and that I have been placed in a work-related activity group. Is this a 'good' outcome?

I worked for DWP/DHSS for many years and should be able to understand it - but the whole system has changed so much that I am completely lost.

[Yorky Lass]

It means you are unable to work at present but in the future you may be able to do so.

[wolf63]

Thanks York - I probably should have put more into my question.

I know what it means - we are paying you for now but you may have to prove that you are 'really' unfit for work.

I just need to have an idea of whether this decision is a positive one - am I just over the first hurdle.

The above may be total gobbledygook but I can't get my brain and fingers to work in tandem today.

:-)

[Yorky Lass]

There are two groups work related and I can't for the life of me remember the name of the other group but to be in that you have to be practically dead. It means you have been accepted for ESA and as you say will have to comply with those regulations. I presume you will be sent for a medical in the future.
I reckon it's as positive as it can get the fact that you haven't been chucked off straightaway.
When they send you the form to complete prior to the medical fill it in as though it is your worst day not as you are feeling that particular day.

[THECORBYLOON]

The other group is the Support Group which is normally for those who have scored 15 points in certain of the activities. She will already have filled in the ESA50 if she's being transferred to ESA from IB.

[Yorky Lass]

Thanks Corby for update. It's been a couple of years since I worked for DWP. I'm curious has there been a transitional protection for the rate IB to ESA. IB was so much higher than ESA.

[THECORBYLOON]

Yorky, it's not TP'd but the when folk are migrated as they call it after being found to have Limited Capability for Work, the rate will be at least £99.15 which is the same rate as the Long Term Rate on IB. Folk have not been able to make new claims for lB since the end of January last year, so those on IB now, will be at that Long Term Rate If folk are put in the Support Group, the rate is a wee bit higher at £105.05.

[wolf63]

Thanks to both of you.

I was uncertain about how many groups there were and what being in this group meant in reality.

It seems like all three of us have been 'sentenced' to work for DWP at some point in our lives. I started in 1980 and lasted until 2003. :-)

[lcg]

there is no 'good' outcome for esa claimants at present, because the current government are trying to limit the time you are getting esa to 1 year only, irrespective of illness/circumstance (although it hasn't quite got through parliament yet - but it will). people will then only be able to claim jsa and dla (which change to personal payment thingies in the next 1-2 years also). in short, people with disabilities (particularly those with mental health problems) will have a much harder time claiming all disability related benefits in the future and you may have to 'fight' harder to keep them than you have done in the past.

the work related activity group means they think you are capable of doing some work at some point in the future. it also means you might get referred to a4e/another company i can't remember to go on stupid and patronising courses to improve your 'employability' regardless of your skills/education/past employment history.

those with mental health issues (like my hubby) are usually referred to this group even though he has a lifelong diagnosis and is unlikely to get better. they also like to threaten you with attending these patronising and insulting group activities/courses or they will cut your benefit to the £65 ish weekly rate. he worked as a civil servant for 10 years, is doing an msc and is extremely intelligent (more so than the stupid advisors he sees) yet still has to attend courses and jump through hoops to keep his benefits (the last one was a meeting with an advisor about doing a cv - which he already had - so i'm not surprised a4e are in trouble as i am sure they 'claimed' that as an intervention from the government and got paid for it!).

one thing i will say is not to panic (hard, i know, given all the changes going on described above), NEVER sign anything without reading it properly (or listen to them if they tell you that you have to....read the forms very, very carefully), take an advocate/friend/relative with you if you need to have an assessment/see the other agencies involved in esa/make decisions about your benefits and fight your corner. always remind them how your disability affects you at it's worst and don't let them bully you into anything (and from our experience they will try). e.g: mr kicker doesn't do groups (due to his illness and symptoms/presentation). we had letters threatening to stop and/or cut his benefits unless he attended and we had to get gp/consultant/medical assessment and appeal process to get this point across and not have him suffer/get unwell by doing group work.

in my experience, the people dealing with esa are a bunch of Finance Specialists who know nothing about disability (esp. mental health), make it as hard as possible for people to claim and the whole process is not fit for purpose. but....you can do it and get what is rightfully yours - but you need to arm yourself with knowledge before doing anything - and after 3 years of experiencing it through my hubby i like to think i know a little about what to do, so please give me a shout if you need any advice/help.

i wish you the best - please try not to worry as anything with disability benefit change tends to take ages so you can prepare and get what you need in terms of your benefits/support - but things are getting more difficult. i can also point you in the direction of other services/people who may be able to support you and ensure that things stay ok. but they are all bar stewards. x

[Yorky Lass]

Thanks Corby. When I was working and we asked there was just a shrug of the shoulders and was told "Who Knows".

[THECORBYLOON]

lcg76, the proposed limitation of one year will apply ONLY to those who are entitled to the Contribution based ESA and then only if they are in the Work Related Activity Group. Folk in the Support Group or those entitled to Income Related ESA will continue to get their ESA. Many folk are entitled to both types of ESA so even if they no longer qualify for the Contributory ESA they would get the Income Related ESA still.

In referring to folk dealing wi ESA, you appear to have used a word which was automatically censored and replaced but I think I can guess what it was and you also say they are “bar stewards.”

I can assure you that there are many folk who have been awarded ESA because the Decision Maker (DM) has used the evidence provided on the claimant’s ESA50 rather than that provided by the Health Care Professional following a WCA. Would you want to abuse those DMs too? The HCPs sometimes make mistakes when they suggest which Group a claimant should be in which would mean a lower rate of ESA. If this is picked up when the report has been received it will be corrected. Want to insult them too?

[mrs_overall]

Sorry to butt in here but can anyone tell me how the changes affect someone who is on long term IB and who has a terminal illness (but is not in imminent danger of death)?

[THECORBYLOON]

For ESA and IB a terminal illness is one which is a progressive condition and death is expected within six months. If it is clear from the information held that the illness is terminal, the claimant will not be sent a questionnaire and will not be asked to attend a Work Capability Assessment. If it is not clear, a questionnaire will be sent and it may be that after obtaining further info from the claimant’s doctor and or specialist, a decision can be given without attending the WCA. If a claimant is terminally ill, he will be put in the Support Group. Anyone in the Supprt Group will NOT be affected by the proposed changes to ESA.

[mrs_overall]

Thanks Corbyloon. In this case death is NOT expected within 6 months - we are probably talking life expectancy of a few years.
The person in question was dragged into the Job Centre last year and assessed as being able to work for ONE hour a day! This person is on high rate mobility DLA, being virtually unable to walk and has diseased bones which restricts arm/hand movement.

[THECORBYLOON]

Folk in receipt of Incapacity Beneit can do work still within strict limits and not affect their benefit. That does not mean they are EXPECTED to do some work. The assessment is not carried out at a Jcentre so I am at a loss with regards to someone being telt there they can work for an hour a day.

[mrs_overall]

I think if was an over zealous member of staff who came up with the one hour a day.
The Job Centre has a member of staff who deals solely with disabled customers. She was appalled at her colleague and told the ill person that there was no way they were going to force the ill person to do anything.
Thanks again for your advice Corby, and apologies to wolf for encroaching on your post

[THECORBYLOON]

It's not ma post so don't worry about it. They have a Disability Employment Advisor (DEA) who advise those with conditions affecting the ability to work so it sounds like that's who it was. There's a link here about the working rules, http://www.direct.gov...orinjured/DG_10020667

[mrs_overall]

Permitted work is not an option - she couldn't manage any work.
Do you know how often someone on IB has to have medicals?

[THECORBYLOON]

The length of the assessments vary so it could be every six months for a condition that is lilkely to improve or three years for one that is not. They are changing folk from IB to ESA over the next two years still so it may be a while yet before the person you are speakig about is notified but it is based on when the curret IB assessment runs out.

[mrs_overall]

Corby - you are a star xx

[lcg]

no....i did just call them bar stewards. of course, not every single one is, but in our experience they are less than helpful, unsympathetic and have actually told untruths/put pressure on mr kicker to do things he does not have to do. the medical assessments are also a joke and not fit for purpose for a variety of different illnesses/disorders and disability campaigners have long called for this system to be looked at. every time we go through this process, we have to appeal in order to get his esa which is just not right as he has a disability which now prevents him from working and causes such a lot of stress and unnecessary time/effort/paperwork/cost etc which could be spent better elsewhere. as for the staff attitude - i also defer to mrs o's tale among many others of the ineptitude and difficulty in applying the current rules of such a stupid system.