Avoiding Care Charges

[lisdar]

If I owned my own house and have money in the bank what is the best way to avoid charges if I were to go into a home

[sunny-dave]

I agree, gness - after my years of working in dementia care I can only see that it is £££ signs which drive the classification of (most) dementia care as 'hotel services' rather than 'nursing care'.

It's a travesty of natural justice that someone as ill and incapacitated as (say) your mother is treated for financial purposes as being much the same as a spry old bird who has made an elective decision to go into a care home because it's a bit easier than living in her own house.

[bednobs]

just to be clear, the NHS pays for care needed by a registered nurse whether it is in a nursing home or in your own home. it's the social care element that the NHS wont pay for. Most people have to pay for their accommodation and food throughout their life, so why should it be different if you are ill?

[EDDIE51]

Somewhat 'off topic' but I have worked in 3 residential care homes where most of the staff were East European. In all 3 homes the staff told me that they were surprised that the UK had so many care homes. In their own countries the elderly are regarded as the most important and most respected members of society and families think of it as a duty to look after the elder family members even if it means a lot of 'sacrifices' to achieve it. '' Why do English people do this to their grandparents?'' was one question I was asked.

[sunny-dave]

I agree entirely bednobs, as I have said earlier in the thread.

The difficulty comes with the (inaccurate) assessment of many people with dementia as only needing 'hotel services' - when they are patently in the grip of a disabling and life-changing illness.

[bednobs]

it's rather difficult for meto agree with you there SD. I am sure that there are instances where perhaps people should be getting NHS funding and are not, but they should be very small as there is a national assessment tool that should be applied the same way no matter where you reside. Whether the national framework weights things in the "right" way is another matter of course.

[sunny-dave]

The current framework for dementia care assessment is a humungous fiddle, bednobs - even the people who administer it can sometimes barely believe the results - it's a crude cost saving tool. Which isn't in any way a criticism of the people doing the assessment, just my view of the criteria.

Now whether society can afford the true costs of dementia is (as you say) another argument.

[gness]

If that's to me, Bednobs....I have said we are happy to pay for Mum to be cared for.....we don't expect that to be free...

We are paying for the same care as others are getting for free because dementia is not a recognised illness....there is no nursing care that can be given to her....because it's only dementia.

If she had a different illness but receiving the same care (as many others in the home are) she wouldn't have to be paying as much as she does....and to me that is unfair.
It should be judged on the care you need.....not the name of your reason for being in care.

We were told at the last assessment if Mum had to be given some tablets.....or have her BP monitored for example her situation would be different.

I am not saying I resent all her money and the sale of her house going to pay for her care.....I am in a position where I don't need an inheritance....but the rules should be fair.

[EDDIE51]

divebuddy I can see your point , but what do you say to someone like me who has worked their entire life from age 17 to 65 but never been anywhere near able to afford to buy a house and is now on Pension credit . If I need care there is no possible way I can pay .

[gness]

Dave...at our last assessment the two people doing it were far from happy with the outcome.

They both felt that dementia should be considered an illness but, like us, they know the reasons it never will be.....x

[bednobs]

which answer are you refering to? The only answer i directed was to SD. hi dave, im talking about the natioanl framework for continuing healthcare (nhs funded care) not dementia care

[gness]

20.39 Bednobs

[bednobs]

no was not aimed towards you

[sunny-dave]

I know that framework, bednobs - I worked with it for quite a while (on both sides of the table).

The criteria are (very) carefully written to exclude most people with dementia as they usually fall foul of the "does your care need relate primarily to your health" criterion - wrongly in my opinion for people in the later stages of the illness.

Just because they aren't receiving complex interventions on a regular basis shouldn't invalidate a claim - but it very often does.

[bednobs]

yes, because it's in the framework.

[bednobs]

which TBH excludes the vast majority of people, not just those wit demetia

[lisdar]

I thought Zebo summed it up I have worked hard with long hours to acquire my assets and paid my national insurance and tax and wish to pass them onto my children and their families,
my wife worked in a care home and the people that had assets payed through the nose where the lazy ones that have never worked and claimed every Benefit going had the same care
And let's not get political saying if labour or the conservative rule it will be different

[sunny-dave]

OK - ignoring the "it's not fair" element (because life's not fair anyway) ...

... why is paying for care different to paying for any other service you need?

[pixie374]

Most people with dementia aren't nursing care- they are usually physically the healthiest. If they do become eligible for nursing care, they are reassessed and moved. As bednobs is saying, you pay for the care, not nhs treatment.