i've brought up 4 kids too, the eldest now 30 the first two were pretty close together in age, and bringing them up was difficult and i felt sorry for them cos i was'nt a good parent because i felt i had to learn how to be a mum, i did'nt have paents to help me, i love the kids dont get me wrong but i made everything mistake on them, like feeding clothing and generally not knowing how to play with them. but when i hsd the second two things were much better cos i had the experience and knowledge, i was more patient andf more fun to be with helped all 4 kids with reading/homework ect and listened to them and dressed them nicely. i hope the older ones did'nt suffer too much while i was a learner, they all seem happy enough and never been in trouble with police, never skived off school or taken drugs of any kind so i guess i must have done something right. i'm still waiting for grandchildren cos that will be easier still and more fun, like clanad said all you have to do is love them, and then when you've had enough just give them back.