islam

[brionon]

I keep hearing that the 'Terrorists' are not true muslims and that Islam is not to blame. But if the adherants of this religion are carrying out terrorist activities all around the globe, surely Islam must accept some blame?

[brionon]

Is this supposed to be an argument ? Builders don't preach ''Kill the Infidel''.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Ta Dah!! No more than 'Muslims' support terrorism. Look, Peter Sutcliffe murdered prostitues because he heard voices in his head from God telling him to. Should we therefore, using your view, hold all Christians responsible for his actions?

[Octavius]

In 1980 two out of 64 groups were categorized as largely religious in motivation; in 1995 almost half of the identified groups, 26 out of 56, were classified as religiously motivated; the majority of these espoused Islam as their guiding force.

Al Qaeda aims to coordinate a transnational mujahideen network; stated goal is to "reestablish the Muslim State" throughout the world via the overthrow of corrupt regimes in the Islamic world and the removal of foreign presence - primarily American and Israeli - from the Middle East.

Political Islam, as opposed to fundamentalist or neo-fundamentalist Islam, posits a worldview that can deal with and selectively integrate modernity. In contrast, fundamentalist Islam calls for a return to an ontological form of Islam that rejects modernity; groups such as Al Qaeda and the Egyptian Islamic Jihad are representative of fundamentalist Islam.

Quote from answering-islam.org: "The Islamic community has to confront the terrorists in their midst in word and deed, by bringing them to justice and by opposing their interpretation of Islam, if they believe it is not the true interpretation."

Did Peter Sutcliffe refer to a specific God then Waldo?

[WaldoMcFroog]

Octavius, he didn't say 'and I am, of course, referring to the Judao-Christian God,' but his background in Bingley, plus the fact that he was a grave digger at the local cemetary (which is where he first heard the voices) and was married in CoE church would tend to suggest that was indeed the case.

In any case, it is purely used as an example to try and present a line of arguement. I could have chosen numerous others.

[sean ryan]

Don 1 you have some serious issues.  You're not one of these fundamentalists that bombs doctors clinics and hates gays are you?

No one religion is to blame, they ALL are.  Islam doesnt condone murder, just as the bible doesnt.

I am Irsh catholic and in no way condone the IRA or what they do, just as much as I wouldnt expect you to hate me for what they do, but thats what you seem to be advocating. Yes 9/11 was hideous and a close freind lost his cousin in the towers, but also add up how many people have been killed in the name of Bushes "war on terror" and see who the bigger killer of innocents is.

[smee.tracey]

Well put weaza.

[mfewell]

This is a minefield in 21st century Politically Correct Britain. (I heard a suggestion on national radio that the government should not blame Al Qaeda for the bombings - even if it proves to be them - but instead blame someone else, e.g. IRA, Breakaway Salvation Army, so as not to foment anti-Islamic hatred).

Christians are told to preach Christ in the world, but Islam as far as I am aware is the only religion (culture, way of life), that will not rest until the whole planet has been converted. It is our whole way of life that is anathema to the fundamentalists. Different branches use different means of course, but it's spooky and not a little frightening.

The terror will not end until Israel is obliterated. Not just more treaties or anything moderate, but erased completely from the world. The USA gets it in the neck because it supports Israel.

It is currently fashionable to Bush-bash (as it is to Thatcher-bash), but I for one am quietly grateful that the world's most powerful military and economic power is a Western one and at least notionally Christian.  Heaven help us all and Tel Aviv if Bin Laden gets the bomb.

Finally a question. How many Christian churches are there in Saudi Arabia ?

[brionon]

Weaza, I think you know that your argument is dishonest. My problem is with the Islamic religion not those infected with it ,like your neighbour. And Ya Boo, christians do it too, cuts no ice with me as I'm a born again non- christian.

[sean ryan]

Brinon, where on earth do you get off on the comment "infected with islam"  Its not a disease!!

No wonder some muslims feel as if they are ostracised because of their beliefs.

My close friends, ( some of whom are muslim) cant beleive some of the comments they have read about themselves in the press and on the web, if it was tartgetted at an ethnic group, everyone would be screaming "Racism" from the rooftops.

You feel safer with a "christian" superpower holding the bombs? What you mean then is you would prefer a war mongering country that would invade you at the drop of a hat if they dont like your policies ( and you also have gallons of oil they can steal). I dont see what Tel Aviv ( or the landed US aircraft carrier that it is) has to do with this argument.  Thousands of Muslims and Jews live together peacefully and happily, the only thing we see on TV are extremists on BOTH sides.

[El D]

Many people find it difficult because the only way they can categorise these people is as Muslims - that is their single unifying factor, and although the Muslim community can deny it, these people view themselves as Muslims and that is why they are in a group. In the same way that if anarchists chose to adopt ginger hair then ginger hair would become inextricably linked to anarchism, Islam is at the moment linked to global terrorism. Unfortunately even if every ginger haired person stood up and declared themselves against anarchy it wouldnt matter because anarchists have no compunction regarding lying. Do you see? Would you sit next to a ginger person? Just another point of view I suppose.

This is a sticky situation because it is quite easy to get drawn into a self perpetuating cycle - fear of this association will cause Muslims and the rest of the UK to develop an US and THEM attitude which will increase sympathy among the Muslim populace for the terrorists and increase the fear of the rest of the UK of Muslims in general.

Personally I do feel that the UK Muslim population should be more proactive. Someone somewhere isn't saying who these people are - why is that?

[jno]

sounds as if Yorkshire is to blame. Typical bloody Yorkshiremen, always chippy about the big city down south. Shouldn't all honest Yorkshiremen, if there are any, make a public statement repudiating the actions of a few extremists?

[smee.tracey]

Brionon, you obviously have MASSIVE issues regarding religion. I suggest you think VERY CAREFULLY before posting any more AB questions. You may be acting as the devil's advocate but I personally believe you are merely trying to spit poison. Hope you're not offended!!

[brionon]

Smee, no not offended. When I see people strapping explosives to themselves to kill and die having been promise Paradise with 1000 houris to serve them and then Born again Bush and his God bothering friend Blair can bomb Iraq and cause the deaths of 1000's. I'm happy to be ,not only non religious but anti religion. When will the Human race grow up?

[simont]

Religion doesn't start wars and murder innocent people, people start wars and murder innocent people.

[Caity]

First of all, society breeds its own terrorists. Secondly Islam is an Arabic term and it means submission. Actually the word I use for greeting my fellow muslim brothers and sisters is "Salam" which means "peace unto you". What i'm trying to get at here is that Islam is a peacful religion. The only reason why people keep hearing that terrorists are  muslims is because some smucks believe everything they read in the tabloid newspapers,pro zionists. First of all everyone knows that Bush lied about the reasons for going to war with Iraq, because they had "weapons of mass destruction". ok, we see that Saddam Hussein will be put on trial for the murders he commited, but what about Bush? why won't anybody bring him to trial for the murders he's commited? and now people are dying from boths sides, muslims and non muslims for the sake of one man's greed.

[Caity]

As for 9/11 , yes true, 3000 people died , I will not argue with that and yes, I am greatly saddened by such a thing, but has anyone noticed the way thousands of Palastinians die every year because America is supplying the Isralies with weapons and in turn the Isralies are gunning down the Palestinians everyday. The Palestinians with no weapons resort to martyrdom. What would you do in their situation? and this is why some resent America...see what i mean? for anyone who doesn't know the history, modern day Israel used to be called palestine, check an old map. its not rocket science, its obvious but so many people are turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to what is really going on. as for blaming the entire muslim nation for some fanatics, who by the way we are not even sure are muslims anyway, this is daft and ridiculous. I believe people need to sit up and find out what is really going on in the world rather than believeing lies. Brionon I understand your concern and you may feel well justified. plus I think you're afraid, but really you have nothing to be afraid of, don't confuse Islam and terrorism and talk of what you know nothing about.

[smee.tracey]

Caity, I don't honestly believe brionon knows what he talking about. I've rapidly come to the conclusion that brionon is speaking out of ignorance of the facts. I posted an answer a while back stating that I believed Islam to be a largely peaceful religion and your recent answer seems to support this. I use the term largely peaceful as I am not aware of any religion (including Buddhism) which has not had it's 'deviants'.
Brionon's answer will be (predictably) that religions are therefore all at fault and we should all abondon them. WELL I'M SORRY BRIONON BUT THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! I'm a non practicing Christian but that doesn't mean I don't believe in God. I pray, I live a 'hopefully' good and reasonably pure life (I don't break many commandments or commit too many sins) and I know my son is being brought up in the same way.
I do not feel it is time for 'the Human race to grow up' I stongly believe it is time for Brionon to grow up, wake up and stop being so small and petty minded.

[smee.tracey]

AB Ed - can I say biggotted?

[bancodegaia]

How can Islam accept some blame? Because the people who commit such atrocities claim to be Muslim, how can an entire religion be held in any way responsible for the actions of a deranged few?
Your question is exactly the same as asking that the Christian faith be held responsible for the actions (ie the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocents) be attributable because its main two proponents (Bush and Blair) are born again Christians. (Both in my eyes are deranged!!!!)
I just fail to see how a religion of m(b)ilions can be blamed for the actions of less than 0.0000000000001% of its believers.
I'm neither Christian nor Muslim btw.

[brionon]

Quite right, anyone who speaks out against the evils of Religion is a bigot;