religion how did we ever get roped into it

[The Ponderer]

am i the only person that thinks religion no matter how good its intentions is by its very essence divisive. When you think of just about every major world war/ conflict at the heart of it has been some religious or ideological belief. Having being brought up in a strict Catholic environment i used to get bombarded with all the Bible bashing but like a lot of Catholics rejected the beliefs the older i got. I honestly believe ethics/morality can be summed up in one phrase and that is "treat one another as you yourself would like to be treated" maybe if more people adopted this attitude the world would be a better place. Its time we stopped arguing over the petty details as most religions essentially hold the same beliefs at their core obviously with the exception of Satanism and the like.

[Bob A Job]

I disagree about all wars being started by religion. the starting block for ALL wars is 'power' and who has it. Religion may have been an excuse to kickstart it, but so has the 'war on terror' or 'self defense' or 'protecting those who cant protect themselves' 'My daddys bigger than your daddy' Doesnt start a war. 'My daddy wants to be a bigger daddy' Does.

[andy hughes]

I usually quote an excellent line from a film on the subject of religion - "There's just enough religion in the world to make men hate each other, but not quite enough to make them love each other." a quote from Lucifer no less. As an aetheist, I have always believed that God is a creation of man designed to make himself feel better, less lonely, less scared, and hopeful of something after death. I have no problem with the notion that death is the end, and there is no-one looking out for us. My problem with Christianity is Christians, the superior "I've got something, and you;d be a better person if you had it too." approach is nauseating. That said, my wife and children are all Catholic, and we all enjoy the family atmosphere of the church, but I agree with 'Lucifer' - religion leads to trouble far more than its intended purpose should allow.

[londondave]

A lot of the worlds problems are and have been religion based, or had religious involvement. All religions are man made fairytales, there are no gods there are no devils, there is no heaven there is no hell.

[Bob A Job]

As for "treat one another as you yourself would like to be treated". I wouldnt say that too loudly. About 2000 years ago some Paul Mckenna wannabe schizophenic got nailed to a tree for it. lol

[RevShirls]

A lot of truth in what you say, Ponderer - although I don't think it is really the religions in themself that cause the division, rather fundamentalist attitudes within many religions (and indeed within politics and various ideologies). Whenever people/movements claim to have a monopoly on the truth, division and animosity is inevitable. Tend to agree with you, Andy. I said recently in a sermon that people often don't have a problem with various things that Jesus talked about and represented(justice, equality, love, freedom etc). But many people have real problems with Churches, established religion etc. Sounds like some sort of religion you're starting there, londondave!

[Drewhound]

I feel very much as andy hughes does, I don't feel superior to anyone and I resent a religious person feeling superior to me or sorry for me Has anyone been watching the repeat on BBC of the Rev. Musser at Boscastle? Being a country bred Cornishman myself I should have known what the reaction to a woman (shock/horror) priest would be but I was still shocked by the covert bigotry shown towards her. I think people like that have lost sight of what the church is all about, it's not a religion problem but a people problem

[saffstar]

I totally agree with your take on morality, but I'm of the opinion that if all trace of every religion disappeared this instant, people would still find plenty to go to war over. Intolerance is the root of all evil!

[ludwig]

Agree with saffstar. If we were all atheists there would still be as much war and conflict as there is now. We'd just find different reasons and justifications for it.

[quattro]

Hear hear I totally agree with your sympathies Ponderer however for every person like yourself there are a dozen fanatics who are prepared to kill and be killed or incite others to kill all in the name of religion.Its all been passed down over the centuries and the basis of it is the people at the top who do all the preaching get all the power and the money so its in their best interests to perpetuate those myths.

[Cheesefreek]

Do as you would be done by. Quite right Ponderer. If only......

[el duerino]

yes the holier than thou attitude also sickens me. to be honest i have found that christians are often the first to look down on people, as has been said there is a feeling of smug 'betterness' as if they have been enlightened. what is wrong with satanism? (bar human sacrifice)

[The Ponderer]

some good points well made, I think what comes through more than anything thing else is how values can be manipulated by people more than anything else. The Bible itself is just a manifestation of the different values of the PEOPLE who wrote it. Agree with what saffstar said sadly if there was no religion would agree we would probably find something else to fight over. I agree in principal with andyh too but I do believe there is a god and some meaning to life otherwise what would be the point. I guess as long as there is someone who can gain from using religion as a tool for their own advancement the wars etc will continue. Also I wouldn't say Christians tend to look down on anyone the exact opposite, I would say Christians on the whole have a more rounded less extreme faith some would call it a more lazy faith, if anything I would say we are more accepting of other faiths beliefs. I would be a lot more comfortable being a Muslim in a Christian country than a Christian in a Muslim one. That might sound extreme but I do believe there is truth to it.

[Drewhound]

I think that's certainly true of Britain The Ponderer but I'm not so sure about some of the churches in America which taks things to extreme. I've always believed the majority of people anywhere are inherently good and my limited travels have proved this to be the case (proven to me at least)

[el duerino]

strange. islam has never forcibly converted anyone to the muslim faith. not so christianity. I believe true followers of their religions would have nothing to fear from each other. sadly the current state of religion and its continual forays into the political sphere show how flawed most peoples understanding of their faith and religion is.

[WaldoMcFroog]

el duerino "islam has never forcibly converted anyone to the muslim faith. not so christianity."

I defer to your knowledge on this precise point, but it's a matter of public record that the Taliban in Afghanistan *did* force their exremist version of Islam on people against their will, on pain of death.

[RevShirls]

I find it difficult when there are so many generalisations about religion. In many discussions about faith, religion etc I often agree with my humanist or atheist friends. I feel I have more in common with them than with fanatical, fundamentalist, or evangelical believers. I never consider it as my place to convert people to Christianity. In fact the idea abhors me. It means that I would not be accepting a person as they are or that they as a person have nothing to offer me. I, and many christians (and people of other faiths) are more "incarnational" in our faith and beliefs. It is more about journeying with people, learning from one another etc and living our faith. I think it was St. Francis who once said "Preach the word of God, if necessary use words". As for religion and politics, I am not sure if I agree with you, el duerino, although I think I do. I think anyone who has a healthy faith must be political. If I see injustice and people being exploited I see it as a response of love and compassion to be involved and to challenge certain politics. However, using religion in party politics is something very different. In the case of Islam. It is very hard to separate religion, law and politics - as they tend to be one and the same thing. This is something that we in the western world are not so familiar with. I studied Arabic Culture at University to have a better understanding, and soime of my best friends are Muslims. Sorry for the long reply. I don't get much chance to speak/write in English these days now that I'm living in Scandinavia. Hurdy gurdy and all that!

[Eno-Missy]

Well if ''treat one another as you yourself wish to be treated'' is what you feel is right, perhaps you should look into the fundementals of paganism. Paganism was in fact the most popular religion in the UK before Christianity 'preached' itself along!

[tracymort]

i personally have always felt that religion seems to do more harm than good. thats just how i see it though!

[RevShirls]

There are a lot of aspects in paganism that I like, Eno-Missy - particularly the harmony it has with creation. Different faiths and different religions can learn a lot from each other. I am a Christian minister and I incorporate Celtic spirituality into my own faith. Celtic spirituality is very creation-centred like the native American Indians. I love their spirituality and their holistic approach.