Motoring12 mins ago
World at War TV series
BBC2 have been repeating the World at War series (about WW2) from many years ago, around lunchtime.
Although I remember seeing it ages ago, watching it again (now I am older) has again brought home me the horrors of that war (not that any wars are nice).
The genocide of course (rounding up the jews and other undesirables and shooting them in cold blood or gassing them in ovens).
But also the destruction of Warsaw when the Germans were retreating and the Russians advancing (near the end of the war) when the Germans blew up anything and everything in Warsaw so they could totally destroy the city.
Also the Japaneese cruelty in the Burma war, the murder of innocent civilians by the Germans and Russians, the mass bombing of many cities by all sides (the destruction of the city Cleeves and other historic cities), the siege of Leningrad and the starvation and death of the inhabitents.
Also the hundreds of thousands of refugees, driven from their homes and countries, or fleeing one advancing army or the other.
It certainly makes you appreciate what we have today. I think a lot of current youngsters would be staggered if they watched it and realised what people went through not that long ago (my parents both lived through it).
So not really a question, more of a ponder at how stupid the human race can be.
Although I remember seeing it ages ago, watching it again (now I am older) has again brought home me the horrors of that war (not that any wars are nice).
The genocide of course (rounding up the jews and other undesirables and shooting them in cold blood or gassing them in ovens).
But also the destruction of Warsaw when the Germans were retreating and the Russians advancing (near the end of the war) when the Germans blew up anything and everything in Warsaw so they could totally destroy the city.
Also the Japaneese cruelty in the Burma war, the murder of innocent civilians by the Germans and Russians, the mass bombing of many cities by all sides (the destruction of the city Cleeves and other historic cities), the siege of Leningrad and the starvation and death of the inhabitents.
Also the hundreds of thousands of refugees, driven from their homes and countries, or fleeing one advancing army or the other.
It certainly makes you appreciate what we have today. I think a lot of current youngsters would be staggered if they watched it and realised what people went through not that long ago (my parents both lived through it).
So not really a question, more of a ponder at how stupid the human race can be.
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Interesting observation VHG, but, you'll quickly see, that we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.
Look at the last spate of Balkan wars, Serbia tried to maintain Yugoslavia (although more akin to a latter day SCS, Yugoslavia Mk1) but it did so without Great Power support (Serbia's traditional ally Russia was a busted flush back then) so it was isolated and attacked because of western strategic war aims (first Gulf War) to appease the Muslim bloc, it was not an altruistic act.
The war (if memory serves) was sparked by Germany's unilateral recognition of Croation independence, a political practice that goes all the way back to Hellenism.
Look at Kosovo, an American client state if ever there was one, Kosovo is a strategic base for American interests in europe, particuarly Russia and the C.I.S, otherwise they wouldn't bother with it now.
The precedent set by Kosovo has HUGE implications for Turkey, Iraq (a British creation) and Kurdistan.
Get yourself a tin hat, the dummies who run our countries are going to try and take us to war again.
Key indicators for future tensions, China undervaluing the Yuan Remnibi, China operating unfair trade tariffs, Russian claims on the Arctic, Russian policy on gas/oil supplies, foreign support for various seccessionist movements (the Balkans could still break into smaller pieces like southern Dobrudja).
What you need to look out for is reactionary big mouths trying to whip up the masses with glib statements and over simplifications.
Look at the last spate of Balkan wars, Serbia tried to maintain Yugoslavia (although more akin to a latter day SCS, Yugoslavia Mk1) but it did so without Great Power support (Serbia's traditional ally Russia was a busted flush back then) so it was isolated and attacked because of western strategic war aims (first Gulf War) to appease the Muslim bloc, it was not an altruistic act.
The war (if memory serves) was sparked by Germany's unilateral recognition of Croation independence, a political practice that goes all the way back to Hellenism.
Look at Kosovo, an American client state if ever there was one, Kosovo is a strategic base for American interests in europe, particuarly Russia and the C.I.S, otherwise they wouldn't bother with it now.
The precedent set by Kosovo has HUGE implications for Turkey, Iraq (a British creation) and Kurdistan.
Get yourself a tin hat, the dummies who run our countries are going to try and take us to war again.
Key indicators for future tensions, China undervaluing the Yuan Remnibi, China operating unfair trade tariffs, Russian claims on the Arctic, Russian policy on gas/oil supplies, foreign support for various seccessionist movements (the Balkans could still break into smaller pieces like southern Dobrudja).
What you need to look out for is reactionary big mouths trying to whip up the masses with glib statements and over simplifications.
The first process in war and attrocity is dehamanising the enemy
Make them appear like vermin to be irradicated
like this
http://www.calvin.edu...posters/ohneMaske.jpg
or this
http://www.calvin.edu...gpa/posters/ewige.jpg
Here's a WWI classic from the Americans
http://web.mala.bc.ca...stroyThisMadBrute.jpg
Of course these days people are too savvy for poster campaigns like this - tabloids are used instead
You can see the dehumanisation of muslims going on now - classic stereotyping - men with long beards and turbans shaking rifles - women covered in black head to foot.
The whole process is designed to stop people thinking of other people as humans, with mothers, with children, people who like to sit around a mean with friends and familly.
It's very difficult to commit genocide without first dehumanising the enemy
But we wouldn't do that would we? - hmm - anybody for starting a thread in News entitled "who's for nuking Afghnistan?"
Make them appear like vermin to be irradicated
like this
http://www.calvin.edu...posters/ohneMaske.jpg
or this
http://www.calvin.edu...gpa/posters/ewige.jpg
Here's a WWI classic from the Americans
http://web.mala.bc.ca...stroyThisMadBrute.jpg
Of course these days people are too savvy for poster campaigns like this - tabloids are used instead
You can see the dehumanisation of muslims going on now - classic stereotyping - men with long beards and turbans shaking rifles - women covered in black head to foot.
The whole process is designed to stop people thinking of other people as humans, with mothers, with children, people who like to sit around a mean with friends and familly.
It's very difficult to commit genocide without first dehumanising the enemy
But we wouldn't do that would we? - hmm - anybody for starting a thread in News entitled "who's for nuking Afghnistan?"
Jake the peg, the first two links in your append do not work, third one does.
This dehumanising of the enemy was shown in the World at War TV series, and parts of German propoganda films were shown. These superimposed pictures of rats running in and out of drains with jews walking round a city centre.
Every bit of German film shown featuring a jew was either a scruffy jew shuffling around the streets, or a big fat jewish banker type with a cigar and large hooked nose.
When they showed people who were mentally ill it was always people who looked "mad" and were eating leaves off a tree or rocking back and forward in a chair.
Of course this propanda went on in the period leading up to the war, so by the time the war started most Germans were happy to accept the "rounding up" of jews, gypsies, homosexuals, mentally ill people etc.
Of course once one side commits an atrocity the other side do it to get back, for example the Germans treated Russian prisoners and civilians badly, so Russia did the same to the Germans to get their own back.
This dehumanising of the enemy was shown in the World at War TV series, and parts of German propoganda films were shown. These superimposed pictures of rats running in and out of drains with jews walking round a city centre.
Every bit of German film shown featuring a jew was either a scruffy jew shuffling around the streets, or a big fat jewish banker type with a cigar and large hooked nose.
When they showed people who were mentally ill it was always people who looked "mad" and were eating leaves off a tree or rocking back and forward in a chair.
Of course this propanda went on in the period leading up to the war, so by the time the war started most Germans were happy to accept the "rounding up" of jews, gypsies, homosexuals, mentally ill people etc.
Of course once one side commits an atrocity the other side do it to get back, for example the Germans treated Russian prisoners and civilians badly, so Russia did the same to the Germans to get their own back.
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I served in the last war and came across some of these atrocities the main one Belsen.A friend of my schooldays was a prisoner of the japanese and he told me of the terrible ordeal.
he endured.These events made me very bitter against these people so much so that after
my demob I ran a small ironmongery shop and I would not stock any German or Japanese products. This worked very well for a time but then british made supplies dried up and I was left with no alternative but to sell foriegn goods. I look at things now and most things are
made in Germany or Japan. i.e. Cars, televisions computers, washing machines. fridges.
and so the list goes on.I am getting on a bit now and I wonder what happened to our
industry. I know a lot of our young men were killed in the war and a lot emigrated to
Australia on the £10 passage, but why the Goverment did not help our manufacturers
more I do not know. There is still a lot made here but I am sure given help a lot more could have been achieved to enable us to have competed better against these countries
I seem to have drifted away from the theme of this questiion but I just had to say these things
he endured.These events made me very bitter against these people so much so that after
my demob I ran a small ironmongery shop and I would not stock any German or Japanese products. This worked very well for a time but then british made supplies dried up and I was left with no alternative but to sell foriegn goods. I look at things now and most things are
made in Germany or Japan. i.e. Cars, televisions computers, washing machines. fridges.
and so the list goes on.I am getting on a bit now and I wonder what happened to our
industry. I know a lot of our young men were killed in the war and a lot emigrated to
Australia on the £10 passage, but why the Goverment did not help our manufacturers
more I do not know. There is still a lot made here but I am sure given help a lot more could have been achieved to enable us to have competed better against these countries
I seem to have drifted away from the theme of this questiion but I just had to say these things
-- answer removed --
> 2 ABombs saved 9 million lives.
It has always seemed to me that the dropping of the bombs on Japan was more about keeping Russia out of the far east than defeating Japan.
If Russia had "helped" the allies defeat Japan they would have occupied much of the far east near Japan and we would have waited decades to ge them out (the same as happened in Eastern Europe).
Of course by dropping the bomb the US were saying to Russia "dont mess with us, look what we have got".
It has always seemed to me that the dropping of the bombs on Japan was more about keeping Russia out of the far east than defeating Japan.
If Russia had "helped" the allies defeat Japan they would have occupied much of the far east near Japan and we would have waited decades to ge them out (the same as happened in Eastern Europe).
Of course by dropping the bomb the US were saying to Russia "dont mess with us, look what we have got".
If you introduce fear and hatred to the masses they are much easier to control.
If you tell the masses that a certain group of people can't be trusted, many will swallow it hook, line and sinker.
Ironmonger, the failure of British goods abroad was due to convertibility, former colonial countries were able to get paid for their goods in U.S dollars and buy cheaper, better U.S manufactured goods rather than ours.
The Korean war a year or so after convertibility effectively saved Japanese manufacturing, if the Korean war had started a year earlier then Maynard Keynes may have gotten the financial aid he thought (knew) he could get if he could make America realise how important we are for their foreign policy objectives. The downside to that deal would probably have seen British troops return to Vietnam though.
If you tell the masses that a certain group of people can't be trusted, many will swallow it hook, line and sinker.
Ironmonger, the failure of British goods abroad was due to convertibility, former colonial countries were able to get paid for their goods in U.S dollars and buy cheaper, better U.S manufactured goods rather than ours.
The Korean war a year or so after convertibility effectively saved Japanese manufacturing, if the Korean war had started a year earlier then Maynard Keynes may have gotten the financial aid he thought (knew) he could get if he could make America realise how important we are for their foreign policy objectives. The downside to that deal would probably have seen British troops return to Vietnam though.
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