holocaust

[sunshine-kt]

what evidence is there to proof that the holocaust happened?

[El D]

I pity the day asking a question makes one a sick individual. . .

[bernardo]

FINA: I am confuzzled.  Who is "one sick individual"?  And why?  Most of the answers given have been useful and informative, but you haven't even said who you are refering to.

[littleoldme]

alwaysane is the only one who has alluded to this, but before we all rush to condemn the question, is it not possible that sunshine-kt is genuinely asking this as it is some sort of research he/she has to do, rather than suggesting it didn't happen?

In which case, do your own damn homework, ya lazy tyke ;-)

[luckyboy]

I cannot believe the original question that started this thread off...the only doubt is how many were murdered..it now appears that 6 million was too low a figure, and it was much higher, as people pointed out above theres overwhelming evidence, including in the diaries of nazi's like rudolph hoess the commandant at aushwitz, and minutes of the jan 24 1942 meeting of top nazi's at wansee chaired by reynard heidrich..

god how much more bloody evidence do you require.

[Octavius]

I think that if this a homework project, then this is a very good question for someone in secondary school.  Let this person broaden their mind by asking what evidence exists to show that the holocaust did happen - as mentioned above, there are some out there who are famed historians, who claim that it did not happen and that Hitler was unaware.  We all seem to believe that it did happen as we have maybe seen and heard details of what went on from various sources or by visiting the camps ourselves.  Please do not assume that everyone has been given that opportunity - or that they are ignorant or sick.  It is a question that deserves a valid and true answer.

[luckyboy]

yes...good point of course...many of us including me can understandably jump to the wrong conclusions because its the standard question we have all become used to from the holocaust deniers...But then again she/he might not be from secondary school or using it as a project. but if he/she is then... apologies

[Octavius]

Or perhaps sunshine comes from a background where s/he was encouraged to believe that it did not happen - who knows - whatever the circumstance, s/he deserves to be educated, not derided.

[jacey]

 There was a TV prog on a couple of years back, where a group of american teenagers were taken to see one of the concentration camps, they were truly shocked as they had been bought up to believe it was a myth. So who knows what kids are being taught??!!

[Octavius]

Exactly - and I have just found a web site pulling the history of the holocaust and the evidence apart.

For sunshine, perhaps you could take a look at this website and form your own opinions.

http://www.awesomestories.com/history/holocaust_evidence/holocaust_evidence_ch1.htm

[cruthinboy]

Well, sunshine you did ask!  Don't expect any out-of-the-ordinary answers from the AB posse- they seem primed give you the standard answer to everything. There is of a course a whole school of historical revisionism which questions the "Holocaust" in terms of what really happened, numbers involved, whether it was the intention of the Nazis to deliberately commit geocide etc. A good, well-researched work is by Arthur Butz called "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century" available from the Historical Review Press in Uckfield , Sussex.

Incidentally, I just don't know about the Holocaust but I'm willing to hear both sides  - something we wouldn't be allowed to do in much of mainland Europe.

Don't know why I'm making this rare forray outside of music/TV as I'll inevitably be banned.

Alwayssane, sorry don't cite a museum  in Israel ( i.e. Occupied Palestine) as conclusive proof. To the respondent who said their father entered one of the camps - a relative of mine did too and said don't believe a word.

There's two sides to every story ... except when it comes to the Holocaust of course.

[Clare A]

Yes, cruthinboy, and there's a friend of mine whose own parents to his certain knowledge went to the gas chambers in a camp in Poland. He himself was tattooed as a small boy with the camp's numbers - something he shows to nobody. 

You call Israel 'Occupied Palestine'. Israel isn't a state that was invented in 1946. It has existed for thousands of years.

 

[Philtaz]

cruthinboy,

What exactly is your role in your day job with the British National Party?

[cruthinboy]

To the last two respondents - yawn!!! Israel is Occupied Palstine. Yes. Jews have always lived there  - often very anti-Zionist  Jews  (Neturei Karta - heard of them (-:) - they didn't seize control and  pass racist - yes RACIST - listen up you liberals - RACIST laws designed to dicriminate against the indigenous Arab population .

To the sad average man in the street with the BNP jibe - good grief, I've always had doubts about investing vast sums of money in educating the frankly inherently thick- but nonetheless thanks for giving me the ammo to use in future arguments with (considerably brighter) lefties than you.

Do yourself a favour, have an original contribution to something . Who knows? It may change your hitherto purposeless life!

[Philtaz]

Me, a lefty?  You need to remove your head from a certain part of your anatomy! As an ex serviceman and someone who believes in the return of the death penalty I'd class myself as most definitely right of centre!

I don't see vast sums of money being used in educating people about the Holocaust as most of the evidence is already there, in the form of eye witness accounts or concentration camps that are left as a permanent reminder to the horrific crimes of the Third Reich. Or maybe you would prefer that children in schools are not taught facts about that period of history at all?  You'll be burning books next!

As for your 'two sides of the story' argument the denials and information to the contrary do seem to be in rather short supply, don't they?  Most of those tried at Nuremburg didn't deny what had occurred, just that they were 'following orders' and their memory of certain events was more than vague.  Can you provide documenary evidence that the Holocaust never took place, other than one example?

But of course with your head in it's current position you're bound not to notice the blindingly obvious, aren't you? You probably still believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, don't you?

[samz90]

I have been to Auschwitz, Trust me it really happened.

[cruthinboy]

Philtaz:

As for your 'two sides of the story' argument the denials and information to the contrary do seem to be in rather  short supply, don't they? 

Well it is illegal to publish such info. in most of mainland Europe so if you value your freedom and any chance of working in academia again you'll keep quiet, but if you want to find it  (-;  check out  the Historical Review Press website.

Most of those tried at Nuremburg didn't deny what had occurred, just that they were 'following orders' and their memory of certain events was more than vague.  Can you provide documenary evidence that the Holocaust never took place, other than one example?

Confessions can be derived by coercion - Guildford, Birmingham etc.

Can I produce "documentary evidence" that something didn't take place - er, do you want to think about that question???

 

 

[Philtaz]

Confessions can be derived by coercion - Guildford, Birmingham etc.

Mmm let's see, two outrageous events leaving 40 dead, with suspect confessions and decidedly dodgy forensic evidence.

One event covering a period of roughly 4 years leaving upwards of 6 million dead(many more if you count the Russian POW's and German undesirables) with frank admissions, witness testimony, documentary evidence and much of the apparatus for genocide still in place.

Pretty poor analogy really isn't it?

As for the denials you don't see many SS guards saying "Well actually it wasn't Zyklon B in those cannisters and it was only a couple of hundred, not 6 million".  Unless of course you know different?  We're all ears.

[cruthinboy]

I don't think anybody is all ears except you philtaz - I've referred you to a source of revisionist materials but i knew you wouldn't be intererested.

Anyway, sarnz90's been to Auschwitz and says it's true so that pretty well seals it.

 And until you provide "documentary evidence" that the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny don't exist then I will indeed continue to believe in them (-;