Overcharged by plumbers - what can I do?

[camille79]

After our shower went kaputt last week I called our local plumber and he installed a new one.  Stupidly, I didn't ask for a written quote but time seemed to be of the essence (we don't have a bath so really depend on the shower).  There was a vague verbal quote as to how much things would cost.  The bill came in yesterday and they have charged us �260 for a Mira Zest 8.6!  This seemed very high, so I contacted Mira who told me that the RRP was �110 but I could probly get it cheaper if I shopped around.  I just spoke to the plumber and asked them to confirm the invoice which they said they would check, although stated that showers come direct from their wholesaler and are charged at cost.  They also said the wholesaler was more expensive than b&Q etc.  which I find odd.  I would assume that trade prices would be lower than retail?

Am thinking that they are really taking the michael so asked them to check the price and call back.  What I would like to know is do I have to pay the invoice?  I am happy with the standard of the work and am happy to pay for their labour etc but the cost for the shower itself seems astronomical! 

[Oneeyedvic]

Okay sludge - carry on talking cr@p as usual:

if you think 'reasonable price' is over double the manufacturers recommended retail and quadruple what an independent person has enquired as to the price at a local plumbers merchants is, you really are more amazingly dim than I suspected.

I sincerely hope that clients are not puting any trust in you or your 'advice' - for someone who is a self confessed expert in contract law you really don't seem to be able to get to grips with basics.

It is also apparent you have no clue about profit margins if you read your first post.

You may have knowledge of property law (which is doubtful from other ABers contradictory advice on previous posts) but you certainly have no knowledge of:

1) Consumer credit Act

2) Hire purchase Act

3) Distance selling regulations (2000)

4) Sale of Goods Act

5) Sales of Goods and services Act

6) Any knowledge of basic accounting procedures

[Clare A]

I live on the Isle of Man and the law is different here, so I can't really comment on points of law, but may I make a case for reputable plumbers, because there are many honest ones to be had. Often customers don't realise there's more than one firm on the job. It's all 'the builders' to them. One firm ***** up and the rest don't get paid, even if the ****-up isn't their fault.

It grieves me that my Dad pays through the nose for everything, because he doesn't have a network of friends and acquaintances to draw upon - the plumber, the electrician, the car mechanic, etc. There's a lot to be said for getting yourself down a pub where building trade workers drink. You'll soon find yourself falling in with people who might fit your shower or mend your roof if you sort out their computer problem. At our 'local' I reckon you could find yourself anything from a lawyer to a plasterer, taking in car dealers, financiers, any building trade, and even counsellors for when the whole lot of them do your head in!

[Miss Zippy]

Oneeyedvic - sorry if my post came across as questioning you! My experience of the law in this area is different from your manager's that's all. I enjoy reading your contributions so please take any responses of mine in the spirit they're intended :o)

[Oneeyedvic]

Sorry Miss Zippy - bad night yesterday and Sludge has kept saying I am wrong in another post aswell when she clearly doesn't have a clue.

I took this out on you as well and I apologise.

[Miss Zippy]

Yep, I've seen a lot of Sludge's postings and would find them funny if it wasn't for the fact that some people might actually rely on what he/she says! I think we'll just have to take pity on him/her as someone who has clearly nothing better to do with his/her time than spout nonsense! 

[Sludge]

In all matters it is first necessary to establish the facts. By a click of the mouse Oneeyedvic could have discovered (a) that there is no Mira 8.6 (b) it is 8.5 (c) the cheapest finish is white (d) in white the cheapest price is �116 ex VAT and (e) there never was a RRP of �110. It can also easily be reasoned that X111 has a wry sense of humour by pouring oil on burning waters with �50 odd. If Oneeyedvic wished to have a view on this matter he should have first become aware that it is not normal in the plumbing business for clients to instruct plumbers to purchase fittings such as baths, basins etc, clients normally purchase these themselves and hand to plumbers to fix. Purchasing fittings through a plumber is an expensive business, but nontheless for that camille's allegation of overcharging is totally false. A plumbers charge calculated at Shower �116, Overheads 40% �46, Profit 40% �46, Collection �30and Risk �22 total �260 is quite, quite reasonable.

[camille79]

Can I just confirm that the �110 RRP was e-mail to me directly from Mira (the manufacturer) so think we can all assume this is the RRP of the item in question. 

The 8.6/8.5 issue probably comes from a typo - the invoice I received from the plumber stated a cost for an 8.6 so even though this item does not exist it was an innocent typo.

Finally, after my enquiry last week a note arrived this morning saying that the price was correct but they would knock off �20 as a "goodwill  gesture".  Not sure if this affects things.....

[Oneeyedvic]

Sludge - I apologise for not checking the make and model number before I posted an accurate response. Next time someone asks for advice on how to get tipex of a garment, I will ask for proof of this stain before bothering to reply! (actually if they ask how to get tipex off I won't bother replying as there is no such thing as tipex it is after all tippex and people should learn how to type).

I would also refer you back to my previous posting - you obviously have no clue as to accounts - and you seem to want to keep showing your ignorance by repeating it again - has it not occured to you that a plumbing company gets a discount from suppliers which is where the profit margin comes into it. You can make figures up any time you want, but where they come from etc is really just your mind.

Camille - I refer back to my previous post - Under the Sales of Goods and Services Act (1982?) you are entitled to a fair price  if one has not been agreed before hand. If you want, you can go to court - Personally I think you will win, but there are no absolutes in this world. I personally would hang out for the full discount - you have to make decisions on what you think is best / hassle free.

 

Good luck (and just ignore Sludge - read the posts on money & finance - he/she obviously has no clue and has been giving contradictory advice)

[Sludge]

I know that you will find �116 ex VAT to be the cheapest trade price. �137 ex VAT is the average trade price. The �110 RRP is not known of by any of the merchants. The �20 discount is excellent news and should be accepted and the account paid up. You have not been ripped off in any way, it is just that it is not normal for plumbers to supply fittings simply because they have to apply mark-ups of the order I have indicated which makes things expensive. Remember also that where a plumber has to work on an existing installation you will only ever receive an estimate because of the uncertainty, it is only against new work that you will receive a quotation. The matter of trade discount has been raised and where a plumber has a monthly trade account it is usual for it to be subject to 2.5% discount. This discount is retained by the plumber as payment for the use of his cash whilst waiting for the cash from the client.

[Oneeyedvic]

wow - Sludge is now no longer purely an "expert in UK and International Law", he/she is also a plumbing expert too!

Seems, he/she is aware of manufacturers retail prices that even the manufacturers don't know about.

I would suggest any trades person hike up prices when you do any work at Sludge's as he/she thinks that double the trade price is 'reasonable'.

Next time a plumber comes round to mine and suggests he needs a part to fit, I will suggest that he forget it - I'm not paying �30 'collection' for him to get it and �22 'risk' in case it goes wrong! Wow - wonder what plumbers charge for taps whereever you live Sludge.........

I furhter note Sludge that you have elected not to make any further comments on the Hire Purchase or Joint tennancy questions, where people have explained your ineptitude and lack of knowledge. Or are you part of the legal profession, and realsie that you are on to a winner here as you can go on and on about what 'fair' is......

And I notice that your original answer says "Under the circumstances you set out the plumber can charge what he likes for the shower" - when as I have explained with relevant links that is not true.

Your second post includes: "But even if you do not agree it does not matter. You are liable for the amount and have absolutely no grounds by which to dispute it."

So just a quick question for you ..... do you agree the Sales of Goods and Services Act 1982 (a) is an act of parliament, (B) mentions costs and (C) is very relevant to this question.

[smudge]

I have just grabbed a few minutes to peruse this thread.

May I just add that I am smudge - the orginal. I am not associated in any way to Sludge or zmudge.

I have e-mailed the AB Editor today, informing him of this situation.

[Tweed]

Got in there in the end Smudge.

[smudge]

Yes - one has to protect one's name - doesn't one?!

[camille79]

In case anyone is interested.... I made a formal offer, paying for the labour and the rrp of the showerr in 2 cheques and in the letter wrote that when the cheques were cashed i would presume the matter had been resolved to their satisfaction.

This was after speaking to CAB - their advise was that i didn't have a leg to stand on but I hate being ripped off so thought it was worth a go!