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0870 numbers
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What is it that allows this blatent rip off? What exactly are the point of these numbers (apart from the obvious) are they technically neccessary, and therefore more expensive to maintain? I can't see how, when my local sorting office just down the road has one that charges (0870) a 8p+ per minute for what should be charged at the local/national rate of 3p per minute. They only have one phone in there and for years used an ordinary local number. Even govt agencies such as the DVLA are at it! I've tried 'Say no to 0870' but their database is very limited. Surely it's time for MPs to address this and stop this daylight robbery. How do they get away with this
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The main benefits of 0870 numbers are to the businesses that use them, since it gives a national identity, a standardised tariff for callers from anywhere across the country, and the number is portable, so in the event that a business moves, they can take that number with them, saving on costs.
The invisible benefit was that of revenue sharing... 0870 number providers offered businesses a % of the revenue from the calls coming in. Some businesses justified this by saying it helped to cover the costs of operating customer care and technical support lines.
As to something being done about it... it already is. OFCOM have published the latest guidelines, which will force 0870 number providers to bill at the standard STD call rate. This comes into effect Summer 2007 or so, if memory serves.
The invisible benefit was that of revenue sharing... 0870 number providers offered businesses a % of the revenue from the calls coming in. Some businesses justified this by saying it helped to cover the costs of operating customer care and technical support lines.
As to something being done about it... it already is. OFCOM have published the latest guidelines, which will force 0870 number providers to bill at the standard STD call rate. This comes into effect Summer 2007 or so, if memory serves.
0870 numbers DO charge the standard national rate.
It's just that no-one (or very few) actually pays that rate for national calls any more. BT light user customers do, and possibly some business customers, but no-one else. Everyone gets a discount of some sort, often to zero if they are on an inclusive tariff.
I suspect that the loss of revenue sharing that will come with the reduction in price will encourage some companies to switch to 09 numbers instead, so it will be out of the frying pan into the fire.
It's just that no-one (or very few) actually pays that rate for national calls any more. BT light user customers do, and possibly some business customers, but no-one else. Everyone gets a discount of some sort, often to zero if they are on an inclusive tariff.
I suspect that the loss of revenue sharing that will come with the reduction in price will encourage some companies to switch to 09 numbers instead, so it will be out of the frying pan into the fire.
I do not have a land line and phoning 0870 and 0845 is very expensive on Skype. So I just do not phone them!
I use this site to find alternative, geographical numbers:
http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php and so far I have always found a number. The companies may not like it, but that's tough.
I have recently closed all my accounts with the Halifax because it is impossible to call my local branch. I wrote and told Halifax my reasons too.
And you will find that most, if not all, special tariffs apply to geographical numbers only and not 08 numbers.
I use this site to find alternative, geographical numbers:
http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php and so far I have always found a number. The companies may not like it, but that's tough.
I have recently closed all my accounts with the Halifax because it is impossible to call my local branch. I wrote and told Halifax my reasons too.
And you will find that most, if not all, special tariffs apply to geographical numbers only and not 08 numbers.
Recently, I got a call from someone, by the name of James, who said that he was calling from some customer service, or something similar. He said that there were two messages waiting for me. Now, as I'd been waiting for an Internet company to contact me, I called the number, which was 0871 208 9407. When the call was answered, I was asked to hold the line whle I was transferred. As the muzak kicked in, I began to feel uneasy about the call, and rang off. I have probably paid a lot for it, already. Incidentally, the telephone companies are great for giving us lots of options, which allow us free calls, none of which includes their Customer Services, which are invariably 0845, or 0870.
No I'm not wrong Carol Anne - and nor are you. We are talking about different things.
Your 3p a minute is a discounted rate for BT Together customers. It's 'standard' for them but not for everyone.
Residential customers who are not on BT together pay BT's standard rate - which is 7.91 ppm national and 3.95ppm local during the daytime.
Business customers on the standard rate pay even more - something like 9.4ppm daytime. For them the 0870 numbers are a discount!
I'm with you on not liking these numbers - but do have a fear they could be replaced by greedier companies with full premium rate numbers.
For instance if you want to book Megabus over the phone (rather than the internet) it's a 60ppm call.
Your 3p a minute is a discounted rate for BT Together customers. It's 'standard' for them but not for everyone.
Residential customers who are not on BT together pay BT's standard rate - which is 7.91 ppm national and 3.95ppm local during the daytime.
Business customers on the standard rate pay even more - something like 9.4ppm daytime. For them the 0870 numbers are a discount!
I'm with you on not liking these numbers - but do have a fear they could be replaced by greedier companies with full premium rate numbers.
For instance if you want to book Megabus over the phone (rather than the internet) it's a 60ppm call.
I know some companies, including the one I used to work for, use these numbers to put people off calling and to use their website instead whic makes me think about the worst one I hve come accross. Plusnet have a note saying if you're having trouble getting connected then you should call their 0870 number and when you call it they spend 10 minutes telling you how much the call is costing you and that you would be better off logging on to their website. Well, I would if I could have!!!! Useless!
-- answer removed --
I agree with you all. I note that while my BT Tariff is all free calls at anytime (except mobiles) it is only to geographic no.s not 0870 etc. So when these companies say call us at a local rate on 0870 it actually costs me. I use sayno to find geographic numbers but not always. Perhaps I might consider getting an 0870 number at home for just banks etc to call me on.
ZebUK - my belief is that any 0870 number is routed to, for example, 0207 111 9999. If the phone exchange in that part of London explodes then they can quickly reroute that 0870 number to 0161 111 9999.
Same applies to 0845 as far as I know. As much as it's nice to have a "real" phone number to dial (like 0207) they do have their limitations.
I don't remember saying anything about "safer"...
Same applies to 0845 as far as I know. As much as it's nice to have a "real" phone number to dial (like 0207) they do have their limitations.
I don't remember saying anything about "safer"...
Before 2005, 0870 was aligned to "national rate" and 0845 was aligned to "local rate". In 2005, landline operators scrapped the price differential for local and national calls, instead charging a single "geographic" rate for 01 and 02 numbers. They also introduced call packages with "inclusive" calls of up to one hour per call to all 01 and 02 numbers. At that point, "local rate" and "national rate" ceased to exist.
0845 and 0870 numbers, being chargable and non-inclusive, had overnight become expensive in comparison to calling 01 and 02 numbers. As they included a revenue-share element in the call price, they had in effect become "premium rate".
0844 and 0871 numbers had always been revenue share numbers and never had any link with "local" or "national" call prices. These were never inclusive.
Since 2009, 0845 and 0870 numbers are usable within "inclusive minutes" in BT packages. Ofcom removed revenue sharing from 0870 and made 0870 inclusive in 2009. BT expected Ofcom to remove revenue sharing from 0845 too. BT made 0845 inclusive but Ofcom didn't proceed with the expected changes. BT subsidises calls to 0845 numbers.
It's now 0843, 0844, 0871 and 0872 numbers that are the expensive ones from landlines. These are revenue share numbers. In comparison, most people can ring 01 and 02 numbers for up to one hour at no cost since call packages were introduced in the early 2000s.
All 084 and 087 numbers are expensive from mobiles.
Whenever you see an 084 or 087 number advertised, replace the 08 with 03 (keeping the rest of the digits the same as before) and see what you get. It will either be answered by the correct company or will lead to a "number not yet in service" error message.
03 numbers were introduced in 2007. These are usable in inclusive minutes from landlines and, crucually, from mobiles too.
03 numbers cost the same as 01 and 02 numbers if you have to pay for them (i.e. from pay as you go mobiles and from landlines without inclusive minutes).
034 and 037 numbers are already reserved for the users of the matching 084 and 087 numbers.
New users can choose 033 numbers, and certain organisations can use 030 numbers.
Ofcom propose cleaning up the 084 and 087 number ranges. In 2013, several changes are expected:
- 0870 will return to revenue share and align with 0871 and 0872 revenue sharing numbers.
- 0845 and 0870 will no longer be inclusive calls from landlines.
- 0845 will align with 0844 and 0843 revenue sharing numbers.
- The Consumer Rights Directive will force many 084 and 087 users to move customer service and other similar functions to 03 numbers. This will benefit landline and mobile users alike.
- Users of 084 and 087 numbers will have to publish the revenue share that applies to their number (details http://
All 084 and 087 numbers (with the exception of 0870 from 2009 until 2013/2014) are revenue share numbers.
The history is quite complicated, and detailed here: http://
0845 and 0870 numbers, being chargable and non-inclusive, had overnight become expensive in comparison to calling 01 and 02 numbers. As they included a revenue-share element in the call price, they had in effect become "premium rate".
0844 and 0871 numbers had always been revenue share numbers and never had any link with "local" or "national" call prices. These were never inclusive.
Since 2009, 0845 and 0870 numbers are usable within "inclusive minutes" in BT packages. Ofcom removed revenue sharing from 0870 and made 0870 inclusive in 2009. BT expected Ofcom to remove revenue sharing from 0845 too. BT made 0845 inclusive but Ofcom didn't proceed with the expected changes. BT subsidises calls to 0845 numbers.
It's now 0843, 0844, 0871 and 0872 numbers that are the expensive ones from landlines. These are revenue share numbers. In comparison, most people can ring 01 and 02 numbers for up to one hour at no cost since call packages were introduced in the early 2000s.
All 084 and 087 numbers are expensive from mobiles.
Whenever you see an 084 or 087 number advertised, replace the 08 with 03 (keeping the rest of the digits the same as before) and see what you get. It will either be answered by the correct company or will lead to a "number not yet in service" error message.
03 numbers were introduced in 2007. These are usable in inclusive minutes from landlines and, crucually, from mobiles too.
03 numbers cost the same as 01 and 02 numbers if you have to pay for them (i.e. from pay as you go mobiles and from landlines without inclusive minutes).
034 and 037 numbers are already reserved for the users of the matching 084 and 087 numbers.
New users can choose 033 numbers, and certain organisations can use 030 numbers.
Ofcom propose cleaning up the 084 and 087 number ranges. In 2013, several changes are expected:
- 0870 will return to revenue share and align with 0871 and 0872 revenue sharing numbers.
- 0845 and 0870 will no longer be inclusive calls from landlines.
- 0845 will align with 0844 and 0843 revenue sharing numbers.
- The Consumer Rights Directive will force many 084 and 087 users to move customer service and other similar functions to 03 numbers. This will benefit landline and mobile users alike.
- Users of 084 and 087 numbers will have to publish the revenue share that applies to their number (details http://
All 084 and 087 numbers (with the exception of 0870 from 2009 until 2013/2014) are revenue share numbers.
The history is quite complicated, and detailed here: http://
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