Dying Intestate

[davidk65]

On a similar topic "Buenchico" wrote:
"if a married person (or someone in a civil partnership) dies without making a will (i.e. 'intestate') part of their estate goes to the surviving partner, with the remainder being split between ......... other relatives (such as the children or siblings of the deceased person".

Q1: My understand of what was written being that the maximum amount a surviving partner can receive is set at £250,000 plus the deceased personal possessions. Anything above this amount has to be split with others as specified.
Am I correct in this?

Q2: Does the above amount of £250,000 also included the value of a house, the house being in joint names and the couple living there as joint tenants?

Q3: Can a child/children, singularly or jointly, renounce their entitlement making giving their respective shares to the surviving mother or farther?

[woofgang]

Q3 yes any legatee can renounce their inheritance in favour of another legatee.

[dzug2]

Q1 - yes, as long as it's a formal partner, not just a live in lover

Q2 - pretty sure it doesn't include the value of a joint tenancy house

Q3 - as long as they are over 18. They can do so formally (Deed Of Variation) or informally (just gift it back). There could be taxation snags in either course of action though.

[woofgang]

if you do it by deed of variation and the estate duties have been settled(as they would have been for probate to be granted) then there is no tax implication for the legatee. Gifting at a later date might attract tax.

[Buenchico]

Taking Q2 first:
If the couple own the property as 'joint tenants' then neither of them individually owns even the smallest share of the house. It is their legal partnership which owns the whole of the house. (The difference between the two individuals and their 'partnership' is akin to the difference between a person running a limited company and the company itself. They are separate legal entities).

So, when one of the partners dies, no part of the house forms any part of his/her estate. It belongs to the partnership, which now has one surviving member. So that person now owns the whole of the house.

However if the couple had owned their house as 'tenants in common' then the deceased person would have owned a distinct proportion (usually a half) of the house, which would then form part of his/her estate and count towards the 'cut-off figure' you've referred to.

Now Q1:
Rules here:
http://www.hmcourts-s...te/why_will.htm#chart

Lastly, Q3:
Anyone is free to give their own money (or their right to receive such money) to whomever they like, at any time.

Chris

[woofgang]

But Chris Isn't there a limit to tax free gifts in any one year?

[dzug2]

No there is no limit - there is no gift tax in the UK.

There is always the potential for Inheritance Tax at a later date on gifts above a certain amount - but it is potential, not certain, and may never come to happen.

[Buenchico]

As Dzug2 indicates, there is never any tax on gifts, per se.

Under some circumstances gifts given within the past 7 years contribute to the value of a deceased person's estate when assessing liability for Inheritance Tax:
http://www.hmrc.gov.u...ey-property/index.htm

Chris

[davidk65]

Thank you all for your views/opinions on this issue. Things are much clearer now, however, having looked at www.hmcourts could you comment on the following.
Having died intestate the surviving partner has the house (joint tenancy) plus £250,000 the remainder is split between their children.
From www. hmcourts.
"Half of the rest is shared equally amongst the children .
The spouse/civil partner gets the income or interest on the other half during his/her lifetime, and when the spouse or civil partner dies, the capital goes to the deceased’s children equally."

Q1 What is the situation if the surviving partner now makes a will and decides to leave their portion of the deceased estate to other individuals and not to the children who received a share in the first instance?
Q2 Does the original intestate death still exist taking precedent over any subsequent will that might now exist?

[dzug2]

The surviving partner can make a will leaving their OWN assets however acquired to anyone they want.

They cannot make a will giving away the assets that they have a life interest in - those assets are not theirs to give.

[dzug2]

However:

I believe that with the agreement of all the beneficiaries the life interest trust can be wound up (now) and the assets distributed any way they* care to agree. There could be unwelcome tax side effects in doing so though

* 'they' being both the person receiving the income and those due to receive the capital